2021-07-16T17:00:49 <Moini> ### Inkscape Office Hours\n\nWelcome! Who's here?2021-07-16T17:00:58 <ScislaC> I'm here2021-07-16T17:00:59 <ted> \u0001ACTION waves\u00012021-07-16T17:01:17 <Moini> Hi Josh, hi Ted :)2021-07-16T17:01:35 <Lazur> :rocket:2021-07-16T17:01:35 <Lazur> Lazur2021-07-16T17:01:43 <Moini> @doctormo was here a few minutes ago, too - still there with us?2021-07-16T17:01:50 <Moini> Hi Lazur! :rocket:2021-07-16T17:02:02 <Lazur> Hi!2021-07-16T17:02:10 <Moini> If anyone is watching, but not logged in, please come join us!2021-07-16T17:02:56 <ted> So just to make sure folks are aware we're here to help you get your ideas to fly.\r\nAsk questions, propose things, brainstorm what ever.2021-07-16T17:03:15 <Moini> Yes!2021-07-16T17:03:25 <ted> A great time to come by where we can help you out.2021-07-16T17:03:31 <Lazur> ok2021-07-16T17:03:33 <Moini> We've prepared an open Agenda here: \nhttps://pad.chaotikum.org/p/Inkscape_Office_Hours_12021-07-16T17:03:34 <ryangorley> :wave:2021-07-16T17:03:38 <Moini> Hi Ryan!2021-07-16T17:04:03 <Moini> It's a so-called 'Etherpad' - a mass-editable document - where you can jot down your ideas.2021-07-16T17:04:42 <Moini> If we haven't seen you before, be sure to say hi in this chat also, so we know how to contact you.2021-07-16T17:05:40 <Moini> There are a few questions that the Inkscape ~Board~ Project Leadership Committee (renaming currently in progress) needs help with.2021-07-16T17:06:50 <Moini> I'm not a board member, but thought it would be a good idea to invite the wider community to give their input on those questions.2021-07-16T17:07:09 <Lazur> problem is we spectators hardly see the structure of the board and the structure of the project2021-07-16T17:07:22 <Moini> Well, that would be a question to ask!2021-07-16T17:07:49 <ted> Haha, there is probably less structure than you imagine, but happy to help clear that up!2021-07-16T17:08:09 <Moini> It looks like the currently visible attendees all already have given their input on the other two main questions, so until someone else says hi, we can certainly help you out with other questions!2021-07-16T17:08:29 <Lazur> my question would be what's with the svg specs2021-07-16T17:08:58 <Moini> Can you explain what you'd like to know about them?2021-07-16T17:09:15 <Lazur> why inkscape relies around it with all the limitations, why not creating a new format2021-07-16T17:09:17 <ted> Let's see if we can ping @Tav :-)2021-07-16T17:09:34 <adam.belis> probably not he sooms to be very bussy at the moment2021-07-16T17:09:50 <Moini> @Lazur Ah, that question is more of a development question, so it touches the 'structure' part a bit.2021-07-16T17:09:51 <KrIr17> KrIr172021-07-16T17:10:08 <Lazur> and if there is a reason why that's the universal format for the future, how to push the development of the specs forward2021-07-16T17:10:10 <Moini> The Inkscape Board/Committee is not involved in setting the development direction.2021-07-16T17:10:11 <ted> Ah, the project is based on the SVG spec because it provides a good basis for what we want to do. We extend the format a bunch using a custom namespace.2021-07-16T17:10:37 <Moini> So, we can probably clear that misunderstanding up here.2021-07-16T17:11:14 <Moini> The task of the Inkscape Board is to look after legal and financial things for the project and to vote on those.2021-07-16T17:11:20 <ted> Yeah, that is a good point. But also happy to answer historical questions as long as the channel doesn't get overburdened.2021-07-16T17:11:29 <Lazur> the other day we had a long conversation in the users channel about why we are not having linearrgb2021-07-16T17:11:46 <Lazur> and all Icould point to is the spec doesn't have it2021-07-16T17:11:51 <Lazur> or partially2021-07-16T17:11:54 <Lazur> having it2021-07-16T17:12:12 <ted> I'm not sure what linearrgb is? Can you provide a link?2021-07-16T17:12:13 <Moini> I think for color spaces, a developer meeting would be the ideal place to get more info about them.2021-07-16T17:12:24 <Moini> Marc is currentl y working on that.2021-07-16T17:12:39 <Moini> On evaluating things, and preparing Inkscape a bit.2021-07-16T17:12:48 <Lazur> which is a feature that would benefit the users and completely blocked by limitations outside the scope of the project as per se2021-07-16T17:13:10 <ted> Yeah, so the CSS spec does provide for a lot of color options. Which is where SVG has moved to, letting the CSS spec define them.2021-07-16T17:13:31 <Moini> Lazur, do you know how to find developer meetings to get the full info when the right persons are there to help?2021-07-16T17:13:36 <Lazur> @ted http://tavmjong.free.fr/blog/?p=7652021-07-16T17:14:11 <Moini> Personally, I would rather take the chance to educate people about Board tasks than elaborate on color spaces.2021-07-16T17:14:46 <Mc> Hey!2021-07-16T17:14:52 <Lazur> I always feel myinterference blocks the flow of the conversation so not sure which is the right time and place2021-07-16T17:14:54 <Moini> Hi :)2021-07-16T17:15:07 <Moini> Lazur, we can tell you.2021-07-16T17:15:11 <Lazur> as those questions are already out of the proposed agenda here2021-07-16T17:15:23 <Moini> The developer meeting is the right place for questions about development and features.2021-07-16T17:15:29 <Moini> Like this one.2021-07-16T17:15:38 <Moini> (this feature, not this meeting)2021-07-16T17:15:40 <Lazur> :)2021-07-16T17:15:57 <ted> @Lazur, so yeah, details about color space for sure. But I think you should feel free to ask them so that we can help you find the right place.2021-07-16T17:16:22 <Moini> No worries, Lazur, you've learnt something about the Board, so, that's valuable, too :) You said you didn't know much about the structure, now you know more.2021-07-16T17:16:34 <ted> But, I think even from Tav's post there he mentions how it is possible in SVG, just difficult (and perhaps not practical)\r\nI think our bigger limitation with SVG is that people expect that SVG is exactly what browsers do, but every SVG implementation is a bit different. Any standard has that problem.2021-07-16T17:17:52 <Lazur> the original discussion was around the gap issue of which the poster claimed linearrgb would solve -wanted to produce some greenscreen like backdrops2021-07-16T17:17:57 <Moini> At least if they use an extensible markup language ;-)2021-07-16T17:18:16 <Lazur> he told he annoyed the developers of blender to thepointtheyimplemented the feature :D2021-07-16T17:18:20 <adam.belis> [ ](https://chat.inkscape.org/channel/inkscape_board?msg=b2m6PRyPzf2RLgtak) heh acutaly no gap is antialiasing problem of cairo :D2021-07-16T17:18:38 <ted> I once gave a talk about SVG at the Libre Graphics Meeting (a great conference for users and devs if you can make it) and I gave it based on everything that Inkscape uses SVG for. The then head of the SVG committee was there and was upset I didn't cover enough of the spec for his liking (which was fair).2021-07-16T17:18:56 <Moini> Lazur, be careful with taking that on as a good role model, lol ;-)2021-07-16T17:19:32 <Moini> Best thing is if one can do some work that helps people move into the direction one wants.2021-07-16T17:20:17 <ted> Yes, and I think examples for folks like Inkscape, but also Firefox/Chrome/etc are helpful. If people are using it everywhere that helps.\r\nIt also fleshes out the spec to make sure everyone does it the same way. Color space conversion can be tricky.2021-07-16T17:21:52 <Kirstie> Hi!2021-07-16T17:21:52 <Kirstie> Kirstie2021-07-16T17:22:02 <Moini> Hey, Kirstie!2021-07-16T17:22:08 <Moini> Great that you could make it!2021-07-16T17:22:53 <Moini> To those who don't know her: Kirstie is a contributor mainly in the Inkscape forums, where she replies to user questions and also moderates, I believe.2021-07-16T17:23:03 <Mc> cool ! :)2021-07-16T17:23:10 <ted> Howdy @Kirstie!2021-07-16T17:23:25 <Kirstie> Thank you. I am also making a big book about Inkscape at the moment.2021-07-16T17:23:32 <Moini> :D2021-07-16T17:23:51 <ollie> ollie2021-07-16T17:24:02 <Moini> Hi @ollie, and welcome!2021-07-16T17:24:07 <ollie> TY2021-07-16T17:24:48 <Moini> Can you introduce yourself in a sentence or two, Ollie?2021-07-16T17:26:26 <ollie> Just a user of Inkscape and waiting for my Legacy Maverick 4x8 to be delivered in Sept and was wondering what this metting was all about2021-07-16T17:26:34 <jabiertxof> we want rename RC chanel name?2021-07-16T17:26:50 <ted> @jabiertxof, at some point, yes.\r\nProbably not right now.2021-07-16T17:27:14 <Moini> Not today, but perhaps later, @jabiertxof \n@ollie Cool, glad that we could attract an interested user!2021-07-16T17:27:36 <Moini> So, we've kind of an open agenda, plus an idea pad.2021-07-16T17:27:42 <Moini> https://pad.chaotikum.org/p/Inkscape_Office_Hours_12021-07-16T17:27:58 <ted> @ollie, so are you planning to use Inkscape for anything particular on your CNC machine?2021-07-16T17:27:59 <ollie> Ok2021-07-16T17:28:23 <Moini> We've already figured out what Inkscape project leadership committee tasks are.2021-07-16T17:28:53 <ollie> Not really sure right now but I have seen a lot of references about it on the groups i'm in2021-07-16T17:29:19 <Moini> And we'd like to gather some input on the two items, plus you can ask any questions about project structure and getting help with becoming an Inkscape contributor.2021-07-16T17:29:23 <ted> I think everyone talks about how we can make a viable community of Inkscape CNC users. Do you use other groups? Or is there a group in the forums you use?2021-07-16T17:30:01 <Moini> Or someone tries to drag you in in a more sneaky way ;-)2021-07-16T17:30:18 <Moini> (would love to see progress there)2021-07-16T17:30:32 <Moini> Kirstie and Lazur probably can also help with that question.2021-07-16T17:30:47 <ted> Yeah, I know my makespace uses Inkscape for various things, but it is kinda ad hoc.2021-07-16T17:30:48 <ollie> Mostly FB groups which have been a great help to me in Maker & VCarve Pro2021-07-16T17:31:00 <Moini> As they help give user support on the forums, also for CNC.2021-07-16T17:31:26 <Moini> Are those FB groups more generally about making, or about Inkscape specifically?2021-07-16T17:31:45 <ted> Ah, so do you see people starting out with the proprietary SW and then using Inkscape? Or vice versa?2021-07-16T17:31:57 <adam.belis> random side note i often see inskcape in random youtube cnc videos :D2021-07-16T17:32:27 <adam.belis> i think ppl with cheap cncs use inkscape coz it does not come with any software2021-07-16T17:32:31 <adam.belis> and inkecape is for free2021-07-16T17:32:35 <Moini> Adam, do you watch them 'just out of interest' or do you have access to a machine like that?2021-07-16T17:32:40 <ted> Haha, perhaps we need a Wiki page \2021-07-16T17:33:07 <adam.belis> [ ](https://chat.inkscape.org/channel/inkscape_board?msg=JRhzpen8jgcSAcuxM) i would like to have buy one when i am older bored and rich :D2021-07-16T17:33:20 <adam.belis> or if i hade a studio space for it :D2021-07-16T17:33:51 <ollie> There are many knowledgeable people that refer me to InkScape to fix problems I run into and it works. I am still really new to it and learning as I go2021-07-16T17:33:55 <ted> Wonder if we could find an educator to put together an Inkscape curriculum for Makerspaces? Or something like that?2021-07-16T17:33:59 <Moini> Heh, yes, they're cool to play with, you could turn your 3D stuff into real objects.2021-07-16T17:34:19 <ted> Like we couldn't staff every makerspace, but perhaps we could help people who want to teach about it.2021-07-16T17:34:21 <adam.belis> [ ](https://chat.inkscape.org/channel/inkscape_board?msg=paTkfCTfZXQQfP8Cj) that would be posible for sure2021-07-16T17:34:39 <ted> (we'll even give them free copies of Inkscape to give out 😉)2021-07-16T17:34:49 <Moini> @ollie Good to know we seem to have a good reputation, too, and it's not 'just' because of money ;-)2021-07-16T17:34:57 <Mc> @ted I'm involved in a mooc (online course) titled \2021-07-16T17:35:17 <ted> Ah, how is it going? Good?2021-07-16T17:35:18 <Kirstie> [ ](https://chat.inkscape.org/channel/inkscape_board?msg=paTkfCTfZXQQfP8Cj) I have been thinking about that. There must be demand for that kind of thing. In the Netherlands there are funds for that too.2021-07-16T17:35:22 <adam.belis> [ ](https://chat.inkscape.org/channel/inkscape_board?msg=yxkE7sSZS6mmJXu3W) definly would be fun for now i just wache maker make stuff and have simular dopamin kick from it :D2021-07-16T17:35:25 <Moini> Mc, what is 'involved'?2021-07-16T17:36:16 <Mc> colleagues of mine from a similar school are doing it2021-07-16T17:36:44 <Moini> Ah! So you help them out with your expertise, Mc?2021-07-16T17:36:54 <Mc> yep2021-07-16T17:37:23 <Moini> Cool :)2021-07-16T17:37:26 <ted> Would it be worth seaking translators for the material?2021-07-16T17:37:32 <Moini> Which one?2021-07-16T17:37:36 <ted> Perhaps into Canadian French? 😉2021-07-16T17:37:58 <doctormo> The educational space is one of the ways some of our contributors earn a bit of their living.2021-07-16T17:38:01 <Moini> Kirstie, that sounds useful!2021-07-16T17:38:17 <ollie> I will probably get shot for this but there is a guy named Seth who is great on FB in Carver the group who might be interested2021-07-16T17:39:02 <Moini> Shot? No! But interested in what specifically, Ollie?2021-07-16T17:39:19 <Moini> Making educational stuff for Makers?2021-07-16T17:39:40 <ted> That's a good point. I think that one particular example is: https://logosbynick.com/inkscape/2021-07-16T17:39:42 <ollie> In helping with Tutorial Videos2021-07-16T17:40:10 <ollie> Inkscape ones2021-07-16T17:40:21 <ted> Kinda embarassed that it apparently takes 18 minutes to explain the document properties dialog.2021-07-16T17:41:13 <Moini> Ah, @ollie , yes, why not? I've heard from a few people being interested in this, but not wanting to do it alone. Maybe someone could start gathering a little team?2021-07-16T17:41:16 <Lazur> oh yes, we need lazy tutorials like blender2021-07-16T17:41:33 <ted> The other example, no paid, was Marin's class she did for the girl scouts. That was really cool and the materials are online.2021-07-16T17:41:39 <Moini> Lazy? Lazur?2021-07-16T17:42:05 <doctormo> ted I actually did that class with Marin here in Dorchester.2021-07-16T17:42:17 <Lazur> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWq-ZPMhai82021-07-16T17:42:20 <ollie> You would be surprised how many people get lost in traing vidoes because of the instructors going too fast or using KB short cuts and not explaining them. That includes me2021-07-16T17:42:21 <ted> Ah, I didn't realize.2021-07-16T17:42:23 <Moini> ted, sounds cool :)2021-07-16T17:43:07 <Moini> Lazur, ah, so reducing work for the user by using some cool tricks.2021-07-16T17:43:23 <adam.belis> [ ](https://chat.inkscape.org/channel/inkscape_board?msg=FkeKm7JFt8zjikExf) depand how deep you want to go2021-07-16T17:43:25 <Lazur> \2021-07-16T17:43:27 <Moini> Yes, ollie... I'm not surprised, to be honest.2021-07-16T17:43:42 <ted> I think that it is probably also \2021-07-16T17:43:43 <Moini> Doing tutorials and workshops, too, quite regularly recently.2021-07-16T17:43:52 <Moini> Only not really paid, lol.2021-07-16T17:43:53 <adam.belis> but yea i dont like nicks he overexplains too much (for me personaly)2021-07-16T17:44:08 <Moini> I don't like them because he's working sloppily...2021-07-16T17:44:16 <ollie> I'm not being critical just speaking from my view as a nubee2021-07-16T17:44:32 <Moini> but pretty engaging to newbies, so it's a good way to attract people.2021-07-16T17:45:07 <adam.belis> [ ](https://chat.inkscape.org/channel/inkscape_board?msg=R5pwAqgBeL6e5hMhr) yop no hate its just not for me ...2021-07-16T17:45:10 <Lazur> imho those kind of tutorials are the worst2021-07-16T17:45:19 <Tav> Hi all!2021-07-16T17:45:24 <doctormo> Hey Tav!2021-07-16T17:45:27 <Lazur> Hi!2021-07-16T17:45:27 <adam.belis> hello2021-07-16T17:45:37 <Moini> @ollie It's alright, it's normal.2021-07-16T17:45:45 <Moini> Adam is working on making things easier!2021-07-16T17:45:54 <Moini> Hi Tav!2021-07-16T17:46:06 <Moini> Adam's in our UX team.2021-07-16T17:46:28 <adam.belis> well i am tring to work with wat we have (EHM EHM gtk :D)2021-07-16T17:47:02 <ted> Yeah, so if we were going to pay someone to do something training-wise, I'd love it to be a way to empower people instead of a one-off. Like building materials for a base laser-cutter class that makerspaces could give. Then we let people build off of that.2021-07-16T17:47:03 <Moini> Yep, you're giving it a lot of time and love :)2021-07-16T17:47:05 <Tav> @ted Do you have a link for the materials Marin did for Girl Scouts? (Having two daughters who are scouts.)2021-07-16T17:47:34 <Moini> Martin probably has them?2021-07-16T17:48:01 <Moini> (he just said he co-lead and is here, that's why I'm saying that)2021-07-16T17:48:01 <adam.belis> btw seling svg is also very viable2021-07-16T17:48:01 <adam.belis> https://www.etsy.com/search?q=svg2021-07-16T17:48:09 <doctormo> @Tav: https://mairin.wordpress.com/category/girl-scouts-class/2021-07-16T17:48:13 <ted> @Tav I believe this is the blog post on it: https://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/10/22/girl-scouts-digital-media-class-day-1-day-2/2021-07-16T17:48:18 <Tav> Thanks!2021-07-16T17:48:26 <ted> Dang, not fast enough 😆2021-07-16T17:49:22 <doctormo> Ah she did it twice, I only did the 2011 one.2021-07-16T17:50:37 <ollie> Is there a way to get a copy or transcript of this session?2021-07-16T17:51:07 <Moini> As we're approaching the official meeting end, I'd like to ask people to give the pad a look, and to enter some ideas to help the project move forwards in those areas. I see a few of you already have put something in - thanks for that! https://pad.chaotikum.org/p/Inkscape_Office_Hours_12021-07-16T17:51:35 <ted> @ollie, there are a few tools to download rocketchat history, I'm using https://github.com/willardb/rocketchat-history-downloader2021-07-16T17:51:58 <Moini> ted - I think it's easier from IRC.2021-07-16T17:52:04 <ted> It'll be in the server until someone removes it though.2021-07-16T17:52:12 <Moini> Could you make a copy that we can share somewhere?2021-07-16T17:52:28 <adam.belis> it stays here in rocket chat2021-07-16T17:52:33 <ted> @Moini, kinda, but each client/bouncer keeps it's own. So it isn't as universally available unless you try to do that ahead of time.\r\n@Moini, sure2021-07-16T17:53:30 <Moini> :) Cool, thanks. Although this was rather informal, I hope everyone is okay with that...2021-07-16T17:53:47 <ted> I think it was great, and good to have an informal meeting.\r\nThank you @Moini for driving it!2021-07-16T17:53:59 <Kirstie> How long is the pad staying online?2021-07-16T17:54:28 <Moini> Mmh, good question. I was planning to paste its contents somewhere in a few days.2021-07-16T17:54:34 <Kirstie> It is so nice to watch it grow2021-07-16T17:54:41 <Moini> Hehe :)2021-07-16T17:55:04 <Moini> Haven't really looked at it myself, too absorbed here. Just saw the different colors, and was happy :)2021-07-16T17:55:52 <ollie> Thanks for having me2021-07-16T17:56:03 <Moini> Hoping that the Board /IPLC can use it for their decision-making later.2021-07-16T17:56:12 <Moini> Ollie, it was great to have you here!2021-07-16T17:56:47 <Moini> Interesting topic that has developed from it, with education for makers2021-07-16T17:57:15 <Moini> Do you have an idea whether you could perhaps follow up on it in some way?2021-07-16T17:57:35 <Moini> (am I being too obvious, trying to drag poor visitors in?)2021-07-16T17:58:13 <ollie> What did you have in mind?2021-07-16T17:58:34 <Moini> I'm not sure, maybe ping your friend about it, and ask what he thinks about it?2021-07-16T17:58:53 <ollie> Do you have my email?2021-07-16T17:59:24 <Moini> Not yet. What would you like to be emailed about?2021-07-16T18:00:10 <Moini> Sorry for the slang, ping = message...2021-07-16T18:00:10 <ollie> Well is there a better way to communicate on this?2021-07-16T18:00:53 <Moini> Sure! We have open mailing lists, and the chat. It's better to have the option for many people to participate, so they can join you in your effort.2021-07-16T18:01:04 <Moini> Or the forums, too.2021-07-16T18:01:29 <Moini> Maybe that would even be the best place for gathering other interested persons, as there's a dedicated maker section.2021-07-16T18:01:35 <adam.belis> i added idea how to count contribution in to pad2021-07-16T18:01:42 <Moini> Adam, thanks!2021-07-16T18:02:25 <Moini> Plus perhaps the facebook group, as you're on there already.2021-07-16T18:03:10 <Kirstie> Thank you for the meeting. Bye! I have added my name in the pad with my ideas.2021-07-16T18:03:14 <Moini> Personally, I'm not much of a maker, so I'm not sure whether I can be useful to that effort directly, other than pointing people to possible places.2021-07-16T18:03:25 <Moini> Thank you Kirstie! Bye!2021-07-16T18:04:00 <Moini> Okay, let's conclude the meeting officially. You can stay on and continue talking, or visit any of the other channels here, too!2021-07-16T18:04:32 <Moini> Thanks everyone for joining us here today! And thanks Ted for helping steer the direction.2021-07-16T18:04:46 <Moini> (to exploring other topics)2021-07-16T18:04:52 <ted> Awesome, thanks folks!2021-07-16T18:05:46 <Moini> If you'd like, it would be cool if you all could leave a message whether you'd like to have another meeting of this kind, and in which time frame2021-07-16T18:06:14 <Moini> Bye for now!2021-07-16T18:07:03 <ryangorley> Thanks @Moini !
IRC log of the first 'Inkscape Office Hours' meeting.
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