Startseite » Bryce Harrington » Objekte » PasteBin » Board Meeting - June 3, 2016
  1. Jun 03 11:37:59 <doctormon> Did I miss the meeting today?
  2. Jun 03 11:38:10 <FailBit> there's been no meeting yet
  3. Jun 03 11:39:38 <Tavmjong> Inkscape Board Meeting in 20 Minutes
  4. Jun 03 11:40:24 <doctormon> Excellent. One day we'll post the meeting in all timezones :-P
  5. Jun 03 11:56:22 <Tavmjong> doctormon: Check the board page for the meeting time.
  6. Jun 03 12:02:10 <doctormon> Tavmjong: this board page: https://inkscape.org/en/*board/ or is there a wiki one too?
  7. Jun 03 12:02:49 <Tavmjong> http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Board_Meetings#Place_and_Time
  8. Jun 03 12:03:20 <Tavmjong> ============= Inkscape Board Meeting ===============
  9. Jun 03 12:03:25 <Tavmjong> Who's here?
  10. Jun 03 12:03:33 <Espermaschine> Hi :)
  11. Jun 03 12:03:42 <ScislaC> I'm pseudo-here
  12. Jun 03 12:03:48 <brynn> brynn
  13. Jun 03 12:04:53 <Tavmjong> bryce: tedg ?
  14. Jun 03 12:06:10 <Tavmjong> Agenda: http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Board_Meetings#Agenda
  15. Jun 03 12:06:33 <Tavmjong> Mc-: ?
  16. Jun 03 12:10:03 <Tavmjong> Hmmm, seems to be a rather dismal turn out of board members.
  17. Jun 03 12:10:46 <doctormon> Maybe
  18. Jun 03 12:11:12 <doctormon> I'll sms kk
  19. Jun 03 12:11:27 <Tavmjong> OK, just sent email to the others... let's give them a few more minutes.
  20. Jun 03 12:13:31 <doctormon> Krzystof is in Mexico he says, so won't be able to join us
  21. Jun 03 12:16:44 <doctormon> "I sent a message about our license situation to Bryce. Let me know if you have any more action items on that front"
  22. Jun 03 12:18:51 <Tavmjong> Well, let's just have a quick update...
  23. Jun 03 12:19:06 <Tavmjong> I put together two very short hackfest pages. One for Gtk3 and one for 0.93. (They could be the same but if not, I think testing might be a good 0.93 hackfest topic.)
  24. Jun 03 12:20:02 <Tavmjong> http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/HackfestGtk3
  25. Jun 03 12:20:17 <Tavmjong> http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Hackfest_0.93
  26. Jun 03 12:20:45 <Tavmjong> ScislaC: Have you any more thoughts on a SCALE associated event?
  27. Jun 03 12:21:35 <ScislaC> I haven't been able to discuss it with Ilan yet, so not atm.
  28. Jun 03 12:21:42 <Tavmjong> OK.
  29. Jun 03 12:22:29 <Tavmjong> doctormon: Your listed as presenting a stock PP for us to use temporarily. Any update?
  30. Jun 03 12:23:20 <doctormon> What is a PP?
  31. Jun 03 12:23:41 <Tavmjong> Privacy Policy
  32. Jun 03 12:24:43 <doctormon> Tavmjong: No movement on the Privacy policy, I complete forgot about it in the rush
  33. Jun 03 12:24:55 <Tavmjong> ScislaC: Any update on the InkscapeForum situation?
  34. Jun 03 12:25:24 <ScislaC> No response from MicroUgly via email or forum message unfortunately.
  35. Jun 03 12:25:33 <Tavmjong> Not good....
  36. Jun 03 12:25:53 * ScislaC nods
  37. Jun 03 12:26:41 <bryce> heya
  38. Jun 03 12:27:03 <Espermaschine> brynn an me are here to represent Inkscapeforum, i guess
  39. Jun 03 12:27:16 <Espermaschine> Lazur couldnt make it this time, so he asked me to come
  40. Jun 03 12:27:17 <bryce> sorry I'm late I just spaced out
  41. Jun 03 12:27:30 <Espermaschine> the spam situation is horrible
  42. Jun 03 12:27:42 <Espermaschine> i took over for a week deleting spam all day
  43. Jun 03 12:28:03 <Espermaschine> we manage to get it kind of spam free
  44. Jun 03 12:28:17 <Tavmjong> Maybe it's time to establish our own forum.
  45. Jun 03 12:28:20 <brynn> Note that we aren't surprised at lack of response from microUgly.
  46. Jun 03 12:28:23 <Espermaschine> but the forum is...well not exactly dead...
  47. Jun 03 12:28:35 <Espermaschine> but the community has a lot of problems
  48. Jun 03 12:28:49 <Tavmjong> Espermaschine: Other than spam?
  49. Jun 03 12:28:58 <Espermaschine> when it comes to action, participation, a million noobs, etc.
  50. Jun 03 12:29:18 <Tavmjong> Would we be better off with our own forum?
  51. Jun 03 12:29:28 <Espermaschine> yes, imo, the core is about ten people
  52. Jun 03 12:29:37 <bryce> I had an action item to set up a committee for evaluating establishing a new forum, but I forgot to do that. I'll make an effort to get a kickoff email out today
  53. Jun 03 12:29:43 <Espermaschine> posted artwork rarely gets a reaction
  54. Jun 03 12:29:57 <brynn> I certainly 2nd on the need for an official forum
  55. Jun 03 12:30:02 <bryce> we set the deadline to contact the owner of the current forum as today
  56. Jun 03 12:30:07 <Espermaschine> its basically helpdesk as Lazur already said
  57. Jun 03 12:30:11 <bryce> since there's been no response we can close that item out and move ahead
  58. Jun 03 12:30:25 <brynn> Yay!
  59. Jun 03 12:30:28 <Tavmjong> bryce: We've got two candidates for a committee right here.
  60. Jun 03 12:30:34 <bryce> Tavmjong, I noticed :-)
  61. Jun 03 12:30:47 <bryce> Tavmjong, think this is a voting matter, or a JFDI?
  62. Jun 03 12:30:55 <Tavmjong> and sounds like they know of a third...
  63. Jun 03 12:31:07 <Tavmjong> JFDI?
  64. Jun 03 12:31:13 <bryce> "just f'ing do it"
  65. Jun 03 12:31:23 <Tavmjong> JFDI
  66. Jun 03 12:31:25 <brynn> several members have expressed interest in participating on a committee
  67. Jun 03 12:31:56 <ScislaC> Tavmjong: I did a whois on the domain did some extra googling and found an alternate domain/email for microUgly... I'll shoot a message there.
  68. Jun 03 12:31:57 <brynn> But would be good to have some devs too
  69. Jun 03 12:32:17 <doctormon> I do have an update about the inkscape forum
  70. Jun 03 12:32:21 <Tavmjong> I don't see a reason we need to vote.
  71. Jun 03 12:32:29 <Tavmjong> doctormon: Shoot...
  72. Jun 03 12:33:01 <doctormon> stand by
  73. Jun 03 12:33:07 <bryce> brynn, would you be willing to serve as chair for the duration of the committee? It would have a limited charter for planning what to do, coming up with a recommendation on software, administrative policies, and so on. The committee would dissolve once the groundwork is sorted out. So it'd be a role lasting maybe a few months.
  74. Jun 03 12:33:43 <brynn> absolutely!
  75. Jun 03 12:34:11 <doctormon> I put together a small forum app which should suffice for a basic functional replacement: https://inkscape.org/en/forums/ it has some good intergration to existing comments on uploaded items and while Maren has a long list of advanced features she'd want in a forum, this might be enough.
  76. Jun 03 12:34:47 <doctormon> I'm presenting it to the new forum committee as a possible option, but I don't expect it to be given any special consideration compared to other options for a forum.
  77. Jun 03 12:35:53 <bryce> doctormon, Tavmjong, ScislaC as we have a quorum how about a quick informal hand vote in favor of establishing an "Inkscape Forum Exploratory Committee" chaired by Brynn, chartered to establish a plan for the forum?
  78. Jun 03 12:36:01 <bryce> my vote is +1
  79. Jun 03 12:36:03 <Tavmjong> +1
  80. Jun 03 12:36:07 <doctormon> +1
  81. Jun 03 12:36:07 <ScislaC> +1
  82. Jun 03 12:36:26 <Tavmjong> Quickest vote ever...
  83. Jun 03 12:36:39 <bryce> settled, thank you for taking the duty Brynn!
  84. Jun 03 12:36:49 <Espermaschine> if nobody is taking over with deleting spam and both Lazur and me are very frustrated about the community situation,Inkscapeforum will be unusable next week
  85. Jun 03 12:36:49 <ScislaC> If something pans out from this more recent email (just sent), I will ping brynn about it.
  86. Jun 03 12:36:56 <bryce> brynn, the items to address are listed on http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Board_Meetings
  87. Jun 03 12:37:02 <brynn> my pleasure
  88. Jun 03 12:37:24 <bryce> brynn, we'll leave it to you to recruit a team, sounds like you're already thinking about getting some diverse viewpoints so that's great
  89. Jun 03 12:37:29 <brynn> Ok, yes, I saw that. Thanks
  90. Jun 03 12:38:04 <doctormon> Espermaschine: It's likely inkscapeforum will have to be shut down if we don't hear anything from the creator. It hurts our brand to have site's claiming or appearing to be offcial.
  91. Jun 03 12:39:32 <brynn> I know it's a burden for them. But as soon as Lazur and Esper give up, it will be overrun by spam quickly!
  92. Jun 03 12:39:46 <Tavmjong> Do we have a time frame for a decision? It's sounds urgent.
  93. Jun 03 12:39:51 <Espermaschine> actually i dont care much about the where....as you all know, there is already an " emergency" forum, run by brynn, that gets kind of ignored
  94. Jun 03 12:39:57 <doctormon> Krzystof says +1 via sms btw
  95. Jun 03 12:40:03 <bryce> Espermaschine, yes today was a deadline to hear back. So if it helps reduce stress just consider it no longer official now, and "moving time"
  96. Jun 03 12:40:16 <Espermaschine> the question is will the situation get better with a new official forum ?
  97. Jun 03 12:40:27 <brynn> what situation?
  98. Jun 03 12:40:41 <Espermaschine> brynn: the community situation
  99. Jun 03 12:41:06 <bryce> Espermaschine, that is indeed one of the key questions, and I hope this new committee will brainstorm a solid solution
  100. Jun 03 12:41:14 <brynn> That's not going to change. You can't force people to participate. I expect the personality of the forum will stay the same.
  101. Jun 03 12:41:18 <bryce> ok anything else on forum or shall we move to a new topic?
  102. Jun 03 12:41:30 <Espermaschine> there is more to a community then helpdesk
  103. Jun 03 12:42:03 <doctormon> I've just removed the main link to inkscapeforum from our website (en)
  104. Jun 03 12:42:16 <brynn> Well, as I've said, I'll be an active and involved admin, as long as we're on IC, and will hear all suggestions and make whatever changes make sense.
  105. Jun 03 12:43:05 <bryce> there's some techniques to help steer a new community towards civility, so if that's a problem with the current forum I can share some thoughts on that with brynn
  106. Jun 03 12:43:47 <Espermaschine> civility ? its not about manners
  107. Jun 03 12:43:55 <brynn> I don't think civility is an issue, as far as I understand "civility". But still glad to hear ideas.
  108. Jun 03 12:44:18 <bryce> Espermaschine, ah I misunderstood then. Apart from spam what is the issue?
  109. Jun 03 12:44:46 <Espermaschine> well maybe you guys would like to have a look at what we are doing, then you can judge for yourself
  110. Jun 03 12:45:04 <bryce> Espermaschine, quick synopsis?
  111. Jun 03 12:45:20 <Espermaschine> there is no quick synopsis
  112. Jun 03 12:46:00 <Espermaschine> for example there is the question if forums are perhaps "old internet"
  113. Jun 03 12:46:13 <Espermaschine> internet behaviour has changed
  114. Jun 03 12:46:14 <brynn> From my understanding, I think Esper wishes for a more social forum, besides just being a helpdesk
  115. Jun 03 12:46:37 <Espermaschine> the forum suffers from apathy
  116. Jun 03 12:46:39 <bryce> oh I see
  117. Jun 03 12:46:54 <brynn> I have not seen any apathy!
  118. Jun 03 12:47:04 <bryce> well, perhaps worth discussing in the forum committee, but sounds like not a board matter really
  119. Jun 03 12:47:12 <bryce> ok moving on
  120. Jun 03 12:47:14 <brynn> Well, maybe from the admin microUgly
  121. Jun 03 12:47:28 <Espermaschine> realy ? so when Maestral posts his artwork and nobody gives a fucking comment, thats not apathy ?
  122. Jun 03 12:48:07 <bryce> Tavmjong, looking at your 0.93 hackfest page
  123. Jun 03 12:48:44 <bryce> testing focus is a good idea
  124. Jun 03 12:48:46 <Espermaschine> or when Lazur and me develop a new effect and nobody chimes in, thats not apathy ?
  125. Jun 03 12:48:54 <bryce> one other topic in relation to that is patch review
  126. Jun 03 12:49:07 <brynn> Esper, let's discuss in the c ommittee, ok?
  127. Jun 03 12:49:14 <Tavmjong> bryce: That was just a quick idea I had. I think a GTK3 hackfest is also a good choice.
  128. Jun 03 12:49:20 <Espermaschine> all that people care about is help symdrome, so they feel good about themselves
  129. Jun 03 12:49:46 <Espermaschine> i wont be part of any comittee
  130. Jun 03 12:49:49 <bryce> we have a very freeform process for patch acceptance, and one consideration might be to switch to a model where patches must get a review signoff prior to landing
  131. Jun 03 12:50:29 <bryce> e.g. the maintenance style used by cairo, X.org, wayland, linux kernel, et al
  132. Jun 03 12:51:23 <bryce> I find it a cumbersome model personally, but can't argue that it *is* good for preventing regressions or code quality problems
  133. Jun 03 12:51:30 <Tavmjong> bryce: Are we talking about all code changes? We might be short human resources to review all patches.
  134. Jun 03 12:51:41 <Espermaschine> im out, good night all
  135. Jun 03 12:51:54 <bryce> night Esper
  136. Jun 03 12:52:09 <bryce> Tavmjong, right that's the big downside to that model
  137. Jun 03 12:52:11 <brynn> see you later, Esper :-)
  138. Jun 03 12:52:54 <bryce> brynn, I can see there's quite some passion around the forum topic, please don't be shy about asking us for assistance if things get too intense!
  139. Jun 03 12:53:24 <Tavmjong> I do like the idea of requiring patch reviews but it would be a change in our culture.
  140. Jun 03 12:53:29 <bryce> Tavmjong, looking at the Gtk3 hackfest, looks like it would be quite a meaty event, I like the look of what you've drawn up
  141. Jun 03 12:53:39 <doctormon> Canonical used to do automatic merging, they had scripts.
  142. Jun 03 12:53:48 <doctormon> And no one could actually commit to trunk
  143. Jun 03 12:54:01 <brynn> Thanks Bryce!
  144. Jun 03 12:54:36 <bryce> Tavmjong, yep agreed. The model has its pluses and minuses
  145. Jun 03 12:54:48 <Tavmjong> bryce: I was hoping tedg would be here to report on a Boston/MIT/GNOME event.
  146. Jun 03 12:54:52 <bryce> yeah me too
  147. Jun 03 12:55:38 <bryce> Tavmjong, for a Gtk3 hackfest, and aligning it to another event, do you think it is better to
  148. Jun 03 12:56:08 <bryce> a) have it before the main event, so people aren't tired and can collaborate on coming up with questions and identifying problems so they know who to talk to
  149. Jun 03 12:56:26 <bryce> b) run it in parallel to the main event to keep travel impacts/costs minimized
  150. Jun 03 12:56:32 <doctormon> I get the feeling like I may be in some kind of box here. bryce, am I being treated unfairly when I get passed over for organising things?
  151. Jun 03 12:56:41 <bryce> c) hold it after the main event, so people have time to implement what they discussed with experts
  152. Jun 03 12:56:56 <bryce> doctormon, sorry, how do you mean?
  153. Jun 03 12:57:35 <doctormon> bryce: I was organising a Boston event, and then I get sidelined and not really given a good reason why.
  154. Jun 03 12:57:38 <bryce> doctormon, do you mean for organizing a boston event? no offense was intended, just trying to spread the workload there
  155. Jun 03 12:57:50 <Tavmjong> bryce: I am not sure. The key is to have access to the experts.
  156. Jun 03 12:58:01 <doctormon> Ok. I was excited about it, but I understand balance bryce
  157. Jun 03 12:58:51 <bryce> doctormon, definitely no offense intended, I know you're busy with a ton of projects and ted seemed interested in working on the boston event so since he's not been quite as active I wanted to pull him in on that. Nothing about you.
  158. Jun 03 12:59:30 <doctormon> Great, sorry for wrong end of stick. I will be available for local connections still, hopefully tedg will be able to use me ;-)
  159. Jun 03 12:59:42 <doctormon> Tavmjong: Draft PP https://inkscape.org/en/about/privacy/
  160. Jun 03 13:00:51 <Tavmjong> doctormon: I'll have a look in a few minutes.
  161. Jun 03 13:01:54 * JonCruz is still amused to see the 'new' forums approach become "old internet"
  162. Jun 03 13:02:05 <Tavmjong> bryce: I guess what I am really looking for in a GTK3 hackfest is to sit down with GTK experts for a day or two. Exactly how it is timed isn't quite so important.
  163. Jun 03 13:02:12 <bryce> Tavmjong, aha
  164. Jun 03 13:02:21 <bryce> Tavmjong, so then in parallel might be best
  165. Jun 03 13:02:49 <bryce> make it a targeted information gathering mission
  166. Jun 03 13:02:59 <Tavmjong> bryce: That could work if they aren't too busy with other things..
  167. Jun 03 13:03:00 <JonCruz> key, though, is on people and participation. implenting tech is secondary
  168. Jun 03 13:03:45 <bryce> Tavmjong, exactly. So the question becomes which of the listed potential main events would the developers be least distracted by other matters?
  169. Jun 03 13:03:47 <Tavmjong> Yeah, we go in with some questions. Have them look at some of our code. Get feedback. Go off and work.
  170. Jun 03 13:03:58 <bryce> iow which of the events will be most outreachy focused
  171. Jun 03 13:04:21 <bryce> guessing that GNOME Summit would be least outreachy and most central planny
  172. Jun 03 13:04:41 <JonCruz> btw, optional Gerrit code reviews might be helpful once we're on git
  173. Jun 03 13:05:09 <bryce> I'm not familiar enough with FOSDEM or GUADEC to decide between them but from what I've heard both are reasonably user oriented
  174. Jun 03 13:05:16 <Tavmjong> I've been monitoring the GIMPNet #gtk+ channel. I'm trying to get a feel of who is there (the freenode #gtk+ channel is useless). Maybe I can post a question there.
  175. Jun 03 13:05:33 <bryce> August sounds like a better timeframe than waiting until next Feb
  176. Jun 03 13:05:58 <Tavmjong> GUADEC seems more appropriate. But can we organize something in two months?
  177. Jun 03 13:06:03 <bryce> Tavmjong, so the second item along these lines is assembling a listing of topics / questions needing investigated
  178. Jun 03 13:06:24 <bryce> Tavmjong, if it's small and we get moving on it we probably can
  179. Jun 03 13:06:31 <Tavmjong> Yes. There is a GTK+ issues page.
  180. Jun 03 13:06:45 <bryce> Tavmjong, depends on availability of Inkscape devs
  181. Jun 03 13:06:53 <doctormon> Gtk3 issues
  182. Jun 03 13:07:33 <bryce> Tavmjong, can you put together a list of potential gtk3-aware Inkscape devs and email them for interest in being sent to GUADEC or FOSDEM to do info gathering for Inkscape on gtk3 topics?
  183. Jun 03 13:07:40 <Tavmjong> http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Gtk_issues
  184. Jun 03 13:08:02 <Tavmjong> bryce: Yes, I can put together a list.
  185. Jun 03 13:08:04 <bryce> Tavmjong, perfect
  186. Jun 03 13:08:57 <bryce> Tavmjong, that list looks great. Might be worth starring items that are in particular need of expert advice.
  187. Jun 03 13:09:32 <Tavmjong> bryce: Can do.
  188. Jun 03 13:09:59 <bryce> Tavmjong, if you start seeing strong enough interest for the August event, email me and I'll try and get a vote done asap for the funding
  189. Jun 03 13:10:21 <Tavmjong> OK
  190. Jun 03 13:10:31 <bryce> alright, next topic
  191. Jun 03 13:10:50 <Tavmjong> Privacy Policy?
  192. Jun 03 13:11:03 <bryce> ok, although didn't doctormon already address that earlier?
  193. Jun 03 13:11:28 <Tavmjong> He just posted one during the meeting.
  194. Jun 03 13:11:44 <bryce> ahh
  195. Jun 03 13:11:48 <bryce> looking
  196. Jun 03 13:13:15 <bryce> ok, looks adequate as a starting point...
  197. Jun 03 13:13:38 <doctormon> I took bits about adverts and googleads/google out.
  198. Jun 03 13:14:01 <Tavmjong> What kind o f security to we have to protect users' information?
  199. Jun 03 13:14:08 <bryce> yeah I see a bit more that could be excised
  200. Jun 03 13:14:22 <bryce> like, we don't have affiliates, so totally no chance of any info sharing, right?
  201. Jun 03 13:14:24 <doctormon> https, password encryption
  202. Jun 03 13:15:56 <doctormon> Not much, but we might share with gimp for examine
  203. Jun 03 13:16:02 <Tavmjong> I agree with bryce that it is a good starting point but we should take the time to look at it more carefully.
  204. Jun 03 13:17:00 <bryce> doctormon, well it specifically says aggregated demographic info; we don't and wouldn't share anything like that right?
  205. Jun 03 13:17:22 <doctormon> no
  206. Jun 03 13:18:07 <bryce> doctormon, I agree with Tav we should do at least a couple rounds of copyediting to customize it to our needs before we want to bless it as official
  207. Jun 03 13:18:13 <doctormon> agreed
  208. Jun 03 13:18:20 <doctormon> I'll send an email to the devel list
  209. Jun 03 13:18:27 * ScislaC nods
  210. Jun 03 13:18:35 <bryce> doctormon, however that said I think if there's urgency to getting a policy up asap, I wouldn't be opposed to this, esp. if we label it as WIP or something
  211. Jun 03 13:19:22 <bryce> if there's not an urgency it might be better to just proceed with the editing process. This gives us a solid place to start from, probably won't take too long to customize it.
  212. Jun 03 13:19:48 <bryce> ok, last topic - fundraising
  213. Jun 03 13:20:05 <bryce> Mc-, are you here today?
  214. Jun 03 13:20:32 <Tavmjong> He doesn't seem to be...
  215. Jun 03 13:20:35 <bryce> yeah
  216. Jun 03 13:20:45 <Tavmjong> bryce: Did you follow up on the large donation?
  217. Jun 03 13:20:46 <bryce> ok, well he had some action items for planning out merchandise sales
  218. Jun 03 13:21:56 <doctormon> Sounds good
  219. Jun 03 13:21:59 <bryce> I'll try and contact Mc- by email. Would be nice to make progress on merchandise by next meeting.
  220. Jun 03 13:23:23 <bryce> ScislaC, I didn't get back to you on that donation already, did I?
  221. Jun 03 13:23:30 <bryce> looking it up now.
  222. Jun 03 13:23:31 <ScislaC> Nope
  223. Jun 03 13:24:48 <bryce> ScislaC, do you recall the amount? I'm not spotting a large figure in recent donations
  224. Jun 03 13:25:29 <ScislaC> It should have been for $5k
  225. Jun 03 13:26:08 <ScislaC> Late February was the last I had heard about it.
  226. Jun 03 13:26:48 <ScislaC> So, it would have landed between 2/25 and now.
  227. Jun 03 13:28:03 <bryce> ScislaC, hrm no sign of it, nothing over $300 so far this year that I can tell
  228. Jun 03 13:28:26 <bryce> I'll look through the raw data after the meeting
  229. Jun 03 13:28:54 <ScislaC> Okay then... let me know if you see anything, if not, I will follow up on my end.
  230. Jun 03 13:29:25 <bryce> (heh, jeez, someone donated $0.10, entirely eaten by paypal, with 0.00 for us)
  231. Jun 03 13:29:45 <Tavmjong> It's the thought that counts!
  232. Jun 03 13:30:07 <doctormon> lol
  233. Jun 03 13:30:14 <Tavmjong> bryce: Did you see my email to you about notifying SFC about our funding votes?
  234. Jun 03 13:30:24 <bryce> ScislaC, ok looking just from 2/25 to 5/26 in the raw data, there is nothing over $100
  235. Jun 03 13:30:41 <ScislaC> okay then
  236. Jun 03 13:30:59 <bryce> Tavmjong, I did. I definitely need to do that, just hampered by procrastination. I need to go through all our votes this year and do a summary.
  237. Jun 03 13:31:17 <bryce> Tavmjong, the last vote I did cc accounting so that one at least should be good to go
  238. Jun 03 13:31:59 <Tavmjong> bryce: Which last vote?
  239. Jun 03 13:32:13 <bryce> Tavmjong, the one on your travels for W3C
  240. Jun 03 13:32:31 <bryce> I'll just need to set aside some time and go through and doublecheck everything
  241. Jun 03 13:32:56 <Tavmjong> bryce: Good! The key ones now are the hackfest and LGM funding votes including the hackfest dinner.
  242. Jun 03 13:33:01 <bryce> I *think* we've sent them everything necessary, but I could have missed one or two votes so will go through everything and doublecheck
  243. Jun 03 13:33:44 <doctormon> Tavmjong: do we know when we'll get recompense?
  244. Jun 03 13:33:52 <Tavmjong> Great!
  245. Jun 03 13:34:29 <bryce> I need to rejigger how I do the voting process so I just automatically CC them on the resolution
  246. Jun 03 13:34:54 <Tavmjong> doctormon: I've got everything ready to go... just waiting to know that SFC has been notified about the votes as I got flack last time I requested a reimbursement.
  247. Jun 03 13:35:08 <bryce> having to rely on my memory to do it manually is just going to lead to tears ;-)
  248. Jun 03 13:35:09 <doctormon> Tavmjong: Damn them and their flack
  249. Jun 03 13:35:19 <doctormon> thanks for pushing that.
  250. Jun 03 13:35:31 <bryce> yeah thanks, and ditto on the flack annoyances
  251. Jun 03 13:35:48 <Tavmjong> Unless there is anything else urgent, I'm going to need to sign off...
  252. Jun 03 13:35:50 <bryce> ok I think that's enough for this meeting
  253. Jun 03 13:36:08 <Tavmjong> Goodnight all.
  254. Jun 03 13:36:13 <bryce> next month maybe we can kick off another fundraiser idea
  255. Jun 03 13:36:18 <ScislaC> G'night Tavmjong
  256. Jun 03 13:36:20 <bryce> === End of Meeting ===
  257. Jun 03 13:36:30 <bryce> on to release 0.92
  258. Jun 03 13:36:46 <bryce> ScislaC, do you have time to chat on it? or prefer just to continue swapping emails?
  259. Jun 03 13:37:00 <bryce> doctormon, or anyone else, have release related thoughts or questions?
  260. Jun 03 13:37:12 <ScislaC> I do have time, but need to step away for a couple mins first
  261. Jun 03 13:37:26 <bryce> ok, sounds good. I'll freshen up my coffee
  262. Jun 03 13:37:30 <doctormon> Is everyone clean on the releases on the website? Any questions there?
  263. Jun 03 13:43:24 <bryce> doctormon, clean?
  264. Jun 03 13:43:32 <doctormon> clear
  265. Jun 03 13:44:29 <jabiertxof_> I have a question about string freeze. I notice is on 25 of may and I commit string on 26 on r14920 and in 14921
  266. Jun 03 13:45:24 <ScislaC> back
  267. Jun 03 13:46:02 <bryce> jabiertxof_, ok sure, what's the question?
  268. Jun 03 13:46:23 <bryce> be careful not to make string changes going forward
  269. Jun 03 13:47:30 <bryce> blocker bugs are at https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bugs?field.tag=blocker
  270. Jun 03 13:47:49 <jabiertxof_> Not a questions but not sure if this action need to be notified
  271. Jun 03 13:48:05 <su_v> ScislaC: sorry for not having kept my promise to help with (blocker) bugs for the release so far.
  272. Jun 03 13:48:20 <bryce> jabiertxof_, one day after string freeze is probably not a huge deal.
  273. Jun 03 13:49:15 <jabiertxof_> yes not change strings more. I not know how is the translate process... great.
  274. Jun 03 13:49:36 <bryce> doctormon, apart from the thoughts I shared earlier, I'm ok with how things are working with the site. I've got the process written up as paint-by-numbers for doing the source tarballs
  275. Jun 03 13:49:47 <ScislaC> bryce: About Screen Contest has still not been started. doctormon was kind enough to video chat/screenshare a walkthrough of the admin interface for various aspects of it. I had attempted to enable the appropriate category on the website and it wasn't showing up. Unfortunately earlier this week we had a loss in the family and I haven't had an opportunity to get back to try again.
  276. Jun 03 13:50:38 <bryce> doctormon, so the most helpful thing to me would be to not make changes to the interface until post-release. While there's a lot that could be improved at least I can run through all the steps mindlessly at this point. I do look forward to the improvements for 0.93
  277. Jun 03 13:50:57 <doctormon> ScislaC: Sorry to hear about the family loss. On the website there is often a caching wait, add ?something and check to see what shows.
  278. Jun 03 13:51:03 <jabiertxof_> my condolences Scislac
  279. Jun 03 13:51:12 <ScislaC> su_v: It's all good. If you have some free time and see any you see as "must block", let me know. I was trying to keep the list light to keep the release on track so far.
  280. Jun 03 13:51:13 <doctormon> bryce: Sounds good.
  281. Jun 03 13:51:17 <bryce> ScislaC, sorry to hear
  282. Jun 03 13:51:26 <ScislaC> thanks everyone
  283. Jun 03 13:52:05 <doctormon> thanks!
  284. Jun 03 13:52:10 <ScislaC> doctormon: I did try adding the ? at the end of the url (did I need to add something after that), but it affect it.
  285. Jun 03 13:52:20 <bryce> yeah the caching behavior is the main annoyance I keep running into
  286. Jun 03 13:52:44 <bryce> at least now that I understand it, the irregularities are a lot less baffling
  287. Jun 03 13:54:10 <bryce> ScislaC, no worries on the about screen. We can give some additional time for it, if that would help. The platform packaging seems to be lagging a bit, so we may need to delay for that regardless.
  288. Jun 03 13:54:17 <ScislaC> that should have read "but that didn't affect it"
  289. Jun 03 13:55:08 <bryce> ScislaC, alternately if you'd prefer we could recruit someone to assist or take over that task.
  290. Jun 03 13:55:34 <bryce> It's also possible in the interest of expediency we could just stick with the 0.91 about screen
  291. Jun 03 13:57:59 <ScislaC> bryce: I'd like to get it going honestly, I just don't know that I'll have the time for wading through the initial setting it up on the website. Help on that front wouldn't be turned down. If that were the case, publicizing and all that getting people involved piece I can definitely make a push on once we're good.
  292. Jun 03 13:59:22 <bryce> ScislaC, if our interface is proving problematic, is it feasible to resurrect the process we used previously with deviantart?
  293. Jun 03 14:00:54 <bryce> We should keep in mind for 0.93 for expediting the release process maybe we could do the about screen work a lot earlier on, and not do it as part of the release process itself.
  294. Jun 03 14:01:21 <ScislaC> bryce: it's certainly feasible, but it's way more manual and would probably net us a lot less participation (since people can easily create a website account with popular SSOs).
  295. Jun 03 14:01:54 <ScislaC> bryce: we could definitely do it earlier next go.
  296. Jun 03 14:02:02 <bryce> ok cool
  297. Jun 03 14:03:16 <bryce> doctormon, would you or someone else on the web team be available to help take care of the setup work for scislac?
  298. Jun 03 14:03:23 <jabiertxof_> make a cuple of t-shirts with the winner?
  299. Jun 03 14:03:56 <bryce> jabiertxof_, to keep things simple, it'll be the same reward as we've done in the past - you get your work in the app :-)
  300. Jun 03 14:04:05 <ScislaC> :)
  301. Jun 03 14:04:29 <bryce> I'm reviewing the blocker bugs
  302. Jun 03 14:06:09 <bryce> su_v thanks for triaging 1416674
  303. Jun 03 14:06:22 <su_v> >> 1416674
  304. Jun 03 14:06:23 <InkBot> Bug #1416674: "0.91 doesn't show fonts loaded by font manager"
  305. Jun 03 14:06:23 <InkBot> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1416674
  306. Jun 03 14:06:31 <jabiertxof_> nos as reward sorry id I explain bad, as funding method. anyway maybe s complex or not the moment
  307. Jun 03 14:07:31 <ScislaC> jabiertxof_: definitely something that could be brought up when Mc- is available for the fund raising conversation
  308. Jun 03 14:07:32 <bryce> jabiertxof_, ah yes that's a good idea for a fundraiser
  309. Jun 03 14:07:59 <bryce> so this bug I gather is a Windows regression related to changing of pango's packaging on Windows?
  310. Jun 03 14:08:01 <ScislaC> bryce: that bug is the one I've had a number of complaints about outside of official channels
  311. Jun 03 14:08:26 <su_v> not related to packaging of pango
  312. Jun 03 14:08:33 <bryce> comment #12 in it has a workaround
  313. Jun 03 14:08:36 <su_v> the win32 backend was turned off in the code
  314. Jun 03 14:08:40 <bryce> su_v, ah
  315. Jun 03 14:08:59 <su_v> (by a Windows dev, in an attempt to fix loading symbol fonts IIRC)
  316. Jun 03 14:08:59 <bryce> su_v, do you know the commit number for that change?
  317. Jun 03 14:09:16 <su_v> I added a link in the comments
  318. Jun 03 14:09:26 <doctormon> bryce, ScislaC: Let me know where in the process you are and I'll lend a hand
  319. Jun 03 14:09:32 <bryce> su_v, is that a revertable change, or does undoing the fix cause a worse problem?
  320. Jun 03 14:09:36 <su_v> comment 8
  321. Jun 03 14:10:01 <su_v> bryce: IIRC Alvin asked on the mailing list for help, because it's not working (or did not work) to just revert the commit
  322. Jun 03 14:10:19 <su_v> no answer at the time, if I remember correctly (it's a while ago)
  323. Jun 03 14:11:21 <bryce> wow, 165665 is ancient
  324. Jun 03 14:11:48 <bryce> but the fix of commenting out pango (http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~inkscape.dev/inkscape/trunk/revision/10742) looks like a horrible hackaround
  325. Jun 03 14:12:27 <su_v> https://sourceforge.net/p/inkscape/mailman/inkscape-devel/thread/1431175015259-4973635.post%40n6.nabble.com/#msg34098141
  326. Jun 03 14:12:46 <su_v> there was help, but the message posted after that one fix wasn't promising either
  327. Jun 03 14:13:11 <bryce> hmm
  328. Jun 03 14:13:13 <su_v> https://sourceforge.net/p/inkscape/mailman/message/34098547/
  329. Jun 03 14:13:27 <su_v> maybe there was some later conversation, I don't know right now.
  330. Jun 03 14:13:34 <bryce> do you know if alvin penner is willing to work on this bug?
  331. Jun 03 14:14:05 <su_v> no idea how e.g. switching back to win32 pango backend would affect the new OT feature support on Windows
  332. Jun 03 14:14:24 <bryce> oh -- what is OT feature support?
  333. Jun 03 14:14:36 <su_v> bryce: text & font, new tab
  334. Jun 03 14:14:48 <su_v> for Opentype font features
  335. Jun 03 14:15:13 <bryce> I've subscribed apenner to the bug report
  336. Jun 03 14:15:18 <su_v> http://tavmjong.free.fr/blog/?p=1442
  337. Jun 03 14:15:30 <su_v> ^^ describes the new OT font feature suppport
  338. Jun 03 14:16:46 <su_v> bryce: I guess Alvon had hoped for more feedback/comments in that threat on the mailing list
  339. Jun 03 14:17:19 <su_v> I read "- type some text and note that the text does not show up on the page anywhere" in Alvin's last message that it doesn't really work ...
  340. Jun 03 14:17:27 <bryce> ok, I've left a comment on the bug asking alvin's input
  341. Jun 03 14:17:35 <bryce> sounds like he's potentially an assignee for this
  342. Jun 03 14:17:45 <su_v> not sure about that
  343. Jun 03 14:18:02 <bryce> oh and as a side note, my objective right now is to ensure all the blockers have assignees
  344. Jun 03 14:18:06 <su_v> if it needs more fixing to re-activate win32 pango backend
  345. Jun 03 14:18:22 <su_v> do we know it's what is the target for font handling in Inkscape on Windows?
  346. Jun 03 14:18:48 <bryce> su_v, in general I personally don't care much one way or the other for Windows-specific issues. ;-) ;-)
  347. Jun 03 14:19:06 <su_v> ok, no more comments then ;)
  348. Jun 03 14:19:08 <bryce> but I suppose least amount of disruption would be a goal there
  349. Jun 03 14:19:22 <su_v> maintainable code not?
  350. Jun 03 14:19:30 <bryce> unfortunately this looks like a case where the easy solution is the choice between two regressions
  351. Jun 03 14:20:03 <su_v> if there's a different code path in inkscape, to get the fonts, glyphs, glyph paths and all the important metrics directly from Windows ...)
  352. Jun 03 14:20:34 <bryce> maintainability is of course always important but late in the release stability and least-disruption tends to trump...
  353. Jun 03 14:20:36 <su_v> (that code path exists AFAIU, but is not used because the define was commented out to use it)
  354. Jun 03 14:21:00 <ScislaC> This was something I was hoping OS specific resource master JonCruz might chime in on.
  355. Jun 03 14:21:41 <su_v> once Inkscape switches to native GTK+ backend on OS X, there will be the same question there ...
  356. Jun 03 14:21:49 <ScislaC> that should probably be platform rather than OS
  357. Jun 03 14:22:00 <bryce> for issues that are platform specific like this one, I'm also not opposed to removing them as blockers for the initial release, and let package managers handle patching the fixes post-release.
  358. Jun 03 14:22:11 <bryce> though I know no one except me will be happy with that arrangement ;-)
  359. Jun 03 14:22:12 <su_v> (keep using pango with freetype and fontconfig for Inkscape's font & text; or write custom code to support coretext)
  360. Jun 03 14:22:39 <su_v> bryce: packagers can't "fix" that unless developers fixed it first
  361. Jun 03 14:22:50 <su_v> packagers would need a tested patch
  362. Jun 03 14:23:02 * ScislaC nods
  363. Jun 03 14:23:04 <su_v> it's not how the stuff is packaged - this is about code in inkscape
  364. Jun 03 14:23:34 <bryce> su_v, no I mean once it's fixed in trunk they could go back and do a package release with the patch added in
  365. Jun 03 14:23:40 <JonCruz> we might be hitting up against the bad early assumption that all resources are in a single location that can be hard coded at build time
  366. Jun 03 14:24:25 <bryce> but there's time still to wait for this to get a proper fix
  367. Jun 03 14:24:52 <su_v> currently, inkscape uses freetype & fontconfig on all platforms to retrieve font & glyph information; fontconfig on non-linux does know nothing about font managers which work with the native font backend
  368. Jun 03 14:25:20 <bryce> su_v, would you be willing to keep an eye on 1416674? If we don't hear from alvin in say a week or so, ping me and ScislaC so we can decide on a course of action
  369. Jun 03 14:25:47 <su_v> bryce: I'm not a Windows user myself, and probably care less about that platform than you ;)
  370. Jun 03 14:25:47 <bryce> su_v, also if there's someone other than alvin that might be available to work on fixing it better, that would be good to know
  371. Jun 03 14:26:01 <bryce> su_v, hah fair enough I guess
  372. Jun 03 14:26:15 <bryce> yet more reasons to punt to post-release I suppose
  373. Jun 03 14:26:41 <su_v> I'm not aware of an active developer who's familiar with Inkscape's custom code in libnrtype to get what is needed from the Windows OS for layout, shaping, font metrics ...
  374. Jun 03 14:27:07 <ScislaC> Same here
  375. Jun 03 14:27:30 <bryce> hrm
  376. Jun 03 14:28:01 <bryce> su_v, ScislaC in that case what do you two think if we just move it to Known Issues?
  377. Jun 03 14:28:28 <bryce> users that are particularly bothered by it can manually revert the patch to get the old functionality back
  378. Jun 03 14:28:46 <bryce> and maybe one of them will care enough to turn into an active Inkscape windows developer
  379. Jun 03 14:28:54 <ScislaC> I would be okay with that if the other two blockers get fixed first, otherwise I'd like to keep it on the radar.
  380. Jun 03 14:29:11 <bryce> alright, so next I'm looking at 1389723
  381. Jun 03 14:29:19 <bryce> I was worried we'd have bugs like this one...
  382. Jun 03 14:29:38 <su_v> this seems to be one of the larger chunks: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~inkscape.dev/inkscape/trunk/view/head:/src/libnrtype/FontInstance.cpp#L381
  383. Jun 03 14:29:54 <su_v> (of code within #ifdef USE_PANGO_WIN32 )
  384. Jun 03 14:30:05 <su_v> >> 1389723
  385. Jun 03 14:30:06 <InkBot> Bug #1389723: "Documents created before experimental branch merge get scaled by 90/96"
  386. Jun 03 14:30:06 <InkBot> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1389723
  387. Jun 03 14:30:27 <ScislaC> bryce: Part of the problem is that you're talking very low tech skill users in general hit by that font bug. Crafters/scrapbookers aren't generally also into programming. ;)
  388. Jun 03 14:31:52 <bryce> ScislaC, fortunately it only takes one person that happens to be an outlier for that group ;-)
  389. Jun 03 14:31:53 <su_v> can't comment on the current state of 1389723 (the discussion is rather dated, and in parts was retracted IIRC)
  390. Jun 03 14:32:16 <bryce> ScislaC, but I agree, lack of open source talent on the Windows side is a major hinderence for these kinds of bugs
  391. Jun 03 14:32:48 <su_v> I filed a separate report about one particular issue exposed by the change (which I consider a blocker personally, but likely isn't, considering the apparent urgency to get 0.92 out ASAP)
  392. Jun 03 14:33:18 <ScislaC> su_v: do you recall the bug?
  393. Jun 03 14:33:26 <bryce> jabiertxof_ posted a converter, that's awesome
  394. Jun 03 14:33:38 <su_v> ScislaC: !bug 1508400
  395. Jun 03 14:33:38 <InkBot> Bug #1508400: "inkex.py: support arbitrary (but uniform) document scale (0.92)"
  396. Jun 03 14:33:39 <InkBot> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1508400
  397. Jun 03 14:34:01 <jabiertxof_> thanks bryce
  398. Jun 03 14:34:28 <su_v> bryce: IIRC there was no concensus on how to deal with the changed resolution
  399. Jun 03 14:34:52 <bryce> the good news is the 1389723 issue is a one-time thing. The need for ongoing support for pre-0.91 documents is going to diminish with time.
  400. Jun 03 14:35:01 <su_v> in theory, inkscape does handle the old files ok, but not in all cases (see the one about inkex.py and scale)
  401. Jun 03 14:35:18 <su_v> bryce: trouble is they won't disappear
  402. Jun 03 14:35:25 <su_v> they are everywhere
  403. Jun 03 14:35:29 <bryce> Do we version inkscape .svg files? Revving that version and then issuing warnings on earlier versioned documents might be a viable bandaid
  404. Jun 03 14:35:36 <su_v> no
  405. Jun 03 14:35:40 <su_v> inkscape SVG files are not versioned.
  406. Jun 03 14:35:52 <bryce> hrm
  407. Jun 03 14:35:54 <su_v> we can't handle a automatic one-time conversion (scaling)
  408. Jun 03 14:36:41 <su_v> the 'inkscape:version' attribute of SVGRoot is updated on load - it only conveys which Inkscape version was used the last time the file was saved
  409. Jun 03 14:37:07 <bryce> inkscape:version="0.91 r13725"
  410. Jun 03 14:37:18 <bryce> oh, hmm
  411. Jun 03 14:38:00 <bryce> what about adding an inkscape:version_created or something?
  412. Jun 03 14:38:09 <su_v> it does not convey information about which drawing scale the document is based on, and whether that's an intentional choice, or just a legacy document (and the user doesn't care)
  413. Jun 03 14:38:44 <bryce> su_v, well what do you think the next step should be for this bug?
  414. Jun 03 14:38:48 <su_v> there likely will be more versioning issues ahead with the y-axis switch
  415. Jun 03 14:38:48 <jabiertxof_> or adding inkscape:svg_dpi
  416. Jun 03 14:39:05 <su_v> (which requires to switch guides and grids to SVG coordinates instead of desktop coordinates)
  417. Jun 03 14:39:53 <bryce> (I suppose I should continue reading the rest of the bug comments first...)
  418. Jun 03 14:39:54 <su_v> I doubt that introducing semi-versioned inkscape SVG file format under time pressure to get 0.92 out will help with the pending changes for Inkscape 1.0 (y-axis)
  419. Jun 03 14:40:15 <su_v> bryce: talk with Tavmjong about what was discussed in the comments
  420. Jun 03 14:41:26 <su_v> IIRC it was not decided whether actually re-scaling the document content instead of relying on what is denoted via attributes on SVGRoot is better (or expected)
  421. Jun 03 14:41:37 <su_v> it differs on use cases, too
  422. Jun 03 14:43:25 <bryce> jabiertxof_, your comment #67 sounds like you withdrew the converter from trunk, is that still correct?
  423. Jun 03 14:43:49 <bryce> su_v, yeah looks like Tav might be helpful on this bug
  424. Jun 03 14:44:27 <jabiertxof_> yes, I remove it because no decission about it and put on the website extensions page on website waiting for a more clear decission
  425. Jun 03 14:45:16 <su_v> jabiertxof_: off-topic (just a reminder for later) - before you quit tonight, can I ask you a quick question?
  426. Jun 03 14:45:47 <jabiertxof_> maybe I can add a checkbosx to select transform elements or Viewbox on svgRoot
  427. Jun 03 14:46:11 <jabiertxof_> yes of corse su_v!
  428. Jun 03 14:46:17 <jabiertxof_> course
  429. Jun 03 14:46:42 <ScislaC> Unfortunately, I need to get running. Have a great rest of your day everyone!
  430. Jun 03 14:47:12 <bryce> alright, well given this bug is a legacy file issue and thus won't be a regression for newly created documents, some bandaid involving jabier's tool and a corresponding warning dialog for affected files could be a plan A
  431. Jun 03 14:47:37 <su_v> most users will work with files created with 0.91
  432. Jun 03 14:47:53 <jabiertxof_> Thanks ScislaC. Thanks for your time in this stage.
  433. Jun 03 14:48:04 <su_v> or even 0.48 (given that some linux distros haven't upgraded to 0.91)
  434. Jun 03 14:49:20 <jabiertxof_> there is units on 0.91 or 0.48 inside the svg?
  435. Jun 03 14:49:27 <jabiertxof_> in any place
  436. Jun 03 14:49:36 <jabiertxof_> always
  437. Jun 03 14:49:48 <su_v> jabiertxof_: fiels based on the default template have them in SVGRoot width, height
  438. Jun 03 14:49:52 <su_v> files*
  439. Jun 03 14:50:22 <su_v> width, height in mm; viewBox in CSS Pixels
  440. Jun 03 14:50:35 <jabiertxof_> im thinking in search on open for something never happends on 0.92
  441. Jun 03 14:50:36 <su_v> (the default template in 0.91)
  442. Jun 03 14:50:41 <su_v> in 0.48 and earlier, there's no viewBox
  443. Jun 03 14:50:59 <jabiertxof_> we can check for:
  444. Jun 03 14:51:16 <jabiertxof_> if no viewbox ot there is units on it
  445. Jun 03 14:51:21 <su_v> currently, 0.92pre adds a viewBox if none is present (I don't like that because it changes a whole lot more within the file)
  446. Jun 03 14:51:29 <jabiertxof_> suggest a conversion
  447. Jun 03 14:51:42 <su_v> that's another open question which would need to be discussed before a new stable release is out
  448. Jun 03 14:52:06 <su_v> (whether or not to enforce a viewBox attribute if the original file - for whatever reason - has none)
  449. Jun 03 14:52:51 <jabiertxof_> there is a option to make a viewbox as disabled?
  450. Jun 03 14:52:57 <su_v> ?
  451. Jun 03 14:53:06 <su_v> how would you disable a SVG attribute that is valid?
  452. Jun 03 14:53:16 <bryce> ok, I need to go soon but taking a quick look at 1571192
  453. Jun 03 14:53:28 <jabiertxof_> something in the data inside never affect to content
  454. Jun 03 14:53:37 <jabiertxof_> for example width 100%
  455. Jun 03 14:53:50 <bryce> win64 so sounds like another platform-specific issue
  456. Jun 03 14:53:53 <jabiertxof_> not handled by INkscape I think
  457. Jun 03 14:54:01 <bryce> >> 1571192
  458. Jun 03 14:54:02 <InkBot> Bug #1571192: "Severe performance regression"
  459. Jun 03 14:54:02 <InkBot> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1571192
  460. Jun 03 14:54:25 <su_v> IMHO that's the real blocker for 0.92
  461. Jun 03 14:54:48 <bryce> kk is assigned but not sure that he's actively looking at it
  462. Jun 03 14:55:01 <su_v> or one of the major ones affected all platforms and backends GTK2 runs on
  463. Jun 03 14:55:17 <su_v> we talked about it last time (a month ago)
  464. Jun 03 14:55:38 <su_v> I don't know how much time he has to work on it ...
  465. Jun 03 14:55:44 <su_v> *free time
  466. Jun 03 14:56:57 <su_v> https://sourceforge.net/p/inkscape/mailman/message/35127705/
  467. Jun 03 14:56:58 <bryce> regression between r14762 and r14851 apparently?
  468. Jun 03 14:57:16 <bryce> "I assume it is a regression caused by the "sp_canvas" fixes done by Krzysztof Kosiński during the Hackfest."
  469. Jun 03 14:57:28 <su_v> I don't know how it exposes on Windows, but with my local builds, I had similar reactions like Eduard
  470. Jun 03 14:58:20 <su_v> I can narrow down the revision, if needed
  471. Jun 03 14:58:37 <su_v> it clearly was one of the changes during the hackfest
  472. Jun 03 14:59:02 <bryce> su_v, that would be great, thanks
  473. Jun 03 14:59:07 <su_v> (immediately noticeable for anyone who tested the changes at the time)
  474. Jun 03 14:59:55 <bryce> I don't know what the sp_canvas changes were fixing, but if it wasn't too severe of an issue then reverting that change might be one option to consider. Or conditionalize the fix to not apply with win64 or something
  475. Jun 03 15:00:20 <jabiertxof_> or with GTK2?
  476. Jun 03 15:00:28 <bryce> jabiertxof_, right, yeah
  477. Jun 03 15:00:29 <su_v> sp_canvas was refactored to address flickering with GTK3
  478. Jun 03 15:00:37 <bryce> oh yeah
  479. Jun 03 15:00:50 <su_v> a side-effect of those changes (may) negatively affect GTK2
  480. Jun 03 15:01:16 <su_v> (my observations are that it varies depending on the theme used - or how themes style spinboxes ...)
  481. Jun 03 15:01:51 <su_v> but that's only for one part of the reported regressions (I personally don't observe issues while panning, while others do)
  482. Jun 03 15:02:07 <bryce> given that gtk3 still isn't really solid, I suppose pushing that flickering fix to post 0.92 might be less disruptive
  483. Jun 03 15:02:39 <jabiertxof_> I agree
  484. Jun 03 15:02:44 <bryce> I don't know how long we plan to continue supporting gtk2 but that'd give us more time at least
  485. Jun 03 15:03:12 <jabiertxof_> we speack at hackfes 0.93 not have GTK2 ver
  486. Jun 03 15:03:26 <jabiertxof_> ITs only GTK3
  487. Jun 03 15:03:54 <jabiertxof_> and by this way remove hundred of conditional comments
  488. Jun 03 15:04:42 <jabiertxof_> Also I lisen about C++11 but dont know too much about this
  489. Jun 03 15:04:48 <su_v> jabiertxof_: but there will be new ones, differing GTK3 versions :/
  490. Jun 03 15:05:01 <bryce> right, so if gtk2 is pending removal for 0.93 anyway, maybe just postpone the fix and hobble on with gtk2 for one last release
  491. Jun 03 15:05:25 <bryce> ok, I need to skedaddle, thanks all!
  492. Jun 03 15:05:27 <su_v> 3.20 changed a lot wrt styling, and also between earlier 3.x releases there are incompatibilities, and deprecated stuff
  493. Jun 03 15:06:14 <jabiertxof_> Sure we need a starting point for 0.93
  494. Jun 03 15:06:25 <jabiertxof_> 0.93/GTK3
  495. Jun 03 15:06:49 <su_v> jabiertxof_: got a minute for an unrelated question now?
  496. Jun 03 15:06:54 <jabiertxof_> yes
  497. Jun 03 15:07:01 <su_v> it's about a attribute in namedview
  498. Jun 03 15:07:04 <su_v> "inkscape:locked"
  499. Jun 03 15:07:12 <jabiertxof_> ok
  500. Jun 03 15:07:14 <su_v> I know the attribute is really used per guide
  501. Jun 03 15:08:18 <su_v> but in https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~inkscape.dev/inkscape/trunk/revision/14500.1.8 you add it to namedview too
  502. Jun 03 15:08:39 <su_v> why? is this a "legacy" setting?
  503. Jun 03 15:09:21 <su_v> see https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~inkscape.dev/inkscape/trunk/annotate/head:/src/sp-namedview.cpp#L1101
  504. Jun 03 15:09:35 <jabiertxof_> no i think is a bug I want lockgides one
  505. Jun 03 15:09:39 <su_v> it's added as soon as I create a guide, and is always 'false' (the attribute in namedview)
  506. Jun 03 15:09:46 <su_v> ok
  507. Jun 03 15:10:36 <su_v> AFAICT it does not cause harm - I noticed it because I'm trying to gather information on as many attributes for namedview as possible (for a procedural template)
  508. Jun 03 15:10:37 <jabiertxof_> I try a deeper lock theis weekend and remove it if is not used by aninthing not related to guides
  509. Jun 03 15:10:55 <jabiertxof_> thanks for the input su_v
  510. Jun 03 15:10:55 <su_v> ok
  511. Jun 03 15:10:58 <su_v> thank you
  512. Jun 03 15:11:08 <jabiertxof_> you are welcome
  515. Title: Board Meeting - June 3, 2016
  516. Text Format: IRC logs
  517. License: CC-BY-SA
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Board Meeting - June 3, 2016

von Bryce Harrington

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