Aug 04 11:08:16 <Mc> meeting in 52 min ?Aug 04 11:26:38 <bryce> meeting in 35 min :-)Aug 04 11:29:20 <Tavmjong> Oh. It is the first Friday. Was a meeting announcement sent out?Aug 04 11:32:51 <Mc> yesAug 04 11:33:12 <Mc> Message-ID: <20170803023919.GA3265@bryceharrington.org>Aug 04 11:36:16 <LiamW> CRogers should try Weechat AndroidAug 04 11:36:26 <LiamW> and failing that just run BitchX on the phoneAug 04 11:36:31 <LiamW> it is Linux after allAug 04 11:45:22 <doctormon> LiamW: I run Atomic from f-droidAug 04 12:00:14 <Tavmjong> ======= Inkscape Board Meeting =======Aug 04 12:00:52 <Tavmjong> Who is here?Aug 04 12:00:59 <Mc> o/Aug 04 12:01:23 <tedg> o/Aug 04 12:01:30 <tedg> \o/Aug 04 12:01:56 <bryce> hi hoAug 04 12:02:16 <brynn> brynn observingAug 04 12:02:54 <ryangorley> DittoAug 04 12:03:31 <bryce> doctormon, want to kick us off with an election update?Aug 04 12:04:56 <tghs> hi o/Aug 04 12:05:19 <bryce> while we're waiting... I haven't done anything with the budget since last meeting; other stuff's been consuming my focus. However I'd be interested to know if hackfest attendees were able to get reimbursements processed ok?Aug 04 12:05:39 <Tavmjong> I haven't sent mine in yet. Got to do it this week.Aug 04 12:06:03 <Tavmjong> I think Alex sent his in.Aug 04 12:06:11 <Mc> Havent sent anything yet, not much more to ask than a small per diem at mostAug 04 12:06:39 <Tavmjong> doctormon is the only other one.Aug 04 12:06:54 <bryce> I've not really heard much from Conservancy, so am curious if they're totally swamped or just mostly swampedAug 04 12:07:04 <bryce> ok, will get back to doctormonAug 04 12:07:16 <bryce> == Merchandising ==Aug 04 12:08:37 <bryce> anyone have updates on spreadshirt or other related matters? (stickers, etc.)?Aug 04 12:09:08 <doctormon> helloAug 04 12:09:59 <Mc> iirc doctormon wanted to try other merchandize sites ?Aug 04 12:10:14 <doctormon> Tavmjong, bryce: I'm deliberating if I should ask for anything back. time and effort and not taking money from Inkscape etc etc.Aug 04 12:10:45 <Tavmjong> You mean for the hackfest?Aug 04 12:10:50 <doctormon> bryce: No updates on the election front, tedg never got back to me. I'll have to be more proactive in chasing down the protocol.Aug 04 12:10:57 <doctormon> Tavmjong: Yes.Aug 04 12:11:34 <tedg> Hmm, that's right. Sorry, let me find that stuff.Aug 04 12:11:39 <Tavmjong> We've got two openings to fill for the board. We should probably make this a priority.Aug 04 12:11:52 <doctormon> tedg: thanks Ted.Aug 04 12:13:33 <bryce> on the topic of elections, since we're adding to the board, what would you guys think if we added a Secretary officer position?Aug 04 12:13:53 <doctormon> As long as the roles are well defined. I think that could work well.Aug 04 12:14:00 <Tavmjong> What would they do?Aug 04 12:15:07 <bryce> main think I'd like to offload is dealing with uploading the meeting minutesAug 04 12:16:16 <Tavmjong> Are you talking about a board member taking on that role or a completely new position?Aug 04 12:16:48 <bryce> Tavmjong, thinking more towards the former but either wayAug 04 12:17:08 <bryce> anyway, no hurry on that, but wanted to bring it up to start some thinking for laterAug 04 12:17:45 <doctormon> bryce: We could elect the irc bot to the position ;)Aug 04 12:18:35 <bryce> doctormon, heh. Yeah if there was a command line way for me to post text files to the website, I suppose the rest of the role is easily automatedAug 04 12:19:13 <doctormon> bryce: Do you remember the ubuntu irc bot that would do meeting minutes?Aug 04 12:20:01 <bryce> doctormon, there's also some work that could be done relating to votes, once we've voted to post the results on the web or mailing list for more transparency in our activities. I always mean to do that but never have time toAug 04 12:20:08 <bryce> doctormon, yeahAug 04 12:20:41 <bryce> doctormon, I've looked at a couple other bots. X.org has one for our board meetings there, although it's a bit bare bones.Aug 04 12:20:45 <doctormon> bryce: Anyway, worth thinking about as something to do to make this easier since secretarial jobs are our weakness.Aug 04 12:21:09 <bryce> yeah it's not hard, just time consuming for meAug 04 12:21:34 <bryce> ok, so back to elections... doctormon and tedg what's the next action for moving ahead?Aug 04 12:21:54 <tedg> I think the first step is to send out the request for candidatesAug 04 12:22:10 <tedg> I just gave doctormon a link to the draft for the last one, but it'll need to be updated.Aug 04 12:22:16 <doctormon> bryce: Ted just sent me details about the processAug 04 12:22:38 <bryce> tedg, if you can get that done this week, you might benefit from the 0.92.2 release/announce activityAug 04 12:22:44 <tedg> Also made him an admin of the inkscape.elections.committee in LPAug 04 12:22:48 <bryce> ok greatAug 04 12:23:05 <bryce> is the software we used last election still viable?Aug 04 12:23:27 <tedg> I *believe* so, but it was hosted by the conservancy, so we'll need to check with them.Aug 04 12:23:40 <doctormon> Don't we have the code for that?Aug 04 12:23:57 <doctormon> Also I still have the IRV code we used for the about screen contest.Aug 04 12:24:00 <tedg> Oh, I believe it's all OSS, but they were trying to set it up for anyone.Aug 04 12:24:11 <tedg> As a service to member projects.Aug 04 12:26:00 <doctormon> OK so I may fold some of that information into the board team page Ted, so the info is more perminant and then link to it.Aug 04 12:26:03 <tedg> Hmm, not getting a connection to: https://vote.sfconservancy.org/Aug 04 12:26:15 <tedg> doctormon: +1Aug 04 12:26:43 <tedg> Anyway, the SW is here: https://github.com/conservancy/votingAug 04 12:27:56 <bryce> looks like we need Conservancy's help to configure a new vote?Aug 04 12:28:07 <doctormon> tedg: Great, so I'll start setting that up and get it hopefully complete for next month (by which I mean people voted in) but we'll see.Aug 04 12:28:34 <bryce> (i.e. the step #2 involving manual SQL inserts (?!?))Aug 04 12:28:57 <tedg> Yes, we would.Aug 04 12:29:44 <doctormon> heh, I may not do that.Aug 04 12:30:18 <tedg> For the record, hacking into the Conservancy's voting system is not endorsed by the board ;-)Aug 04 12:30:38 <bryce> hahAug 04 12:30:45 <bryce> ok, anything else on elections?Aug 04 12:31:44 <doctormon> tedg: We'll have our own voting system, with blackjacks.Aug 04 12:31:58 <tedg> \o/Aug 04 12:32:04 <doctormon> I think we have a way forward for this.Aug 04 12:32:31 <bryce> ok, moving onAug 04 12:32:37 <bryce> == Funded development ==Aug 04 12:33:00 <bryce> happy to say I've made a bunch of progress this past monthAug 04 12:33:13 <bryce> defining bunches of models and viewsAug 04 12:33:49 <doctormon> We have some funded development things to talk about, specifically about organic vs non-organic funding.Aug 04 12:33:55 <bryce> I have to say the procedure we defined makes for a lot of code :-/Aug 04 12:33:56 * Mc listensAug 04 12:34:13 <bryce> doctormon, go aheadAug 04 12:34:28 <doctormon> So Mc, Tav and I had a long talk at the hackfest about funding.Aug 04 12:34:48 <doctormon> I can't remember where we were with laying this out, so I'll start from the top.Aug 04 12:35:40 <doctormon> An organic model of funding would involve a central pot of money that looks exactly like the one we have, it's used for hackfests, resources, materials etc.Aug 04 12:36:08 <rindolf> Hi all, sorry for being lateAug 04 12:36:43 <doctormon> Developers would be allowed to create a Patreaon page which describes their work on Inkscape. Each developer would be shaping their focuses and would be responsible to keeping their patreaon pages up to date.Aug 04 12:37:35 <doctormon> We (inkscape) would define a set of strict rules using our trademark as the lever, to make sure developers are actually developers of Inkscape when they claim so on sites like Patreaon.Aug 04 12:37:39 <doctormon> That's a policy additionAug 04 12:38:47 <doctormon> And we then set about updating the support-us page, it would be headed by our central fund, and then the top developers with links to their funding pages would be linked. These links would be dependant on us considering them active, and in good standing.Aug 04 12:39:12 <doctormon> And when we do periodic funding drives, we use this model to get money to developers through these schemes.Aug 04 12:39:44 <doctormon> Tavmjong, Mc: what have I missed?Aug 04 12:40:03 <Mc> I think that's the main pointsAug 04 12:40:05 <Tavmjong> I think that is about what we discussed.Aug 04 12:41:08 <Tavmjong> The thing I like about it is that it requires almost no interaction from the board.Aug 04 12:41:38 <doctormon> A extra would be to allow people like myself to be listed as 'contractors for hire' so not patreaon funded, but available to contact. The list would be kept small, but should prove interesting.Aug 04 12:41:41 <Mc> basically saying "you can help us with two ways : donating to our sfc fund to help us fund hackfests and stuff; or financing specific devs to enable them to devote more time to inkscape (instead of having a day job, for instance)"Aug 04 12:42:23 <Mc> (/three ways : + contacting one of our core devs that is avilable to be hired to work on a feature you want)Aug 04 12:43:27 <doctormon> We hashed this in person, but the whole board should have a mull over the implications.Aug 04 12:43:37 <tedg> Would we expect the website to acknowledge individuals/companies that sponsored individual developers?Aug 04 12:43:59 <Mc> not necessarily (that would ~confluct with sponsors)Aug 04 12:44:03 <Mc> conflict*Aug 04 12:44:45 <Tavmjong> I think it better to leave Inkscape's direct involvement to a listing of verified developers.Aug 04 12:44:47 <doctormon> tedg: Good question, I'm thinking not usually, but it could be a reciprocal with the patreaon/developer. The developer can specify rewards in their patreaon scheme. We can offer developers one or two slots in our acknowlegement scheme.Aug 04 12:45:17 <Mc> I think the two most board-related stuff are about the "fair use" of the logo/name by inkscape devs; and about how the project (website/socialmedia) "endorses/advertizes" itAug 04 12:45:29 <doctormon> Mc: +1Aug 04 12:45:56 <Tavmjong> +1Aug 04 12:46:41 <tedg> I think the other concern is whether we should consider sponsorship for hackfests/etc. of developers that are getting funding through something like Patreon.Aug 04 12:47:51 <Mc> might be case by case, patreon people that earn enough to get half a salary are rare ("failure" rate of people expecting its income for a day job is very high)Aug 04 12:48:08 <Tavmjong> Why wouldn't they be sponsered? It's an additional cost.Aug 04 12:48:49 <doctormon> I would always consider sponsorship to be an fair-field for hackfests. Patreaon is for a devs time, not their travel/perdiem etcAug 04 12:49:25 <tedg> I guess I'm worried about the perception of people "double dipping," i.e. if I worked as a developer for a company on an OSS project, they'd send me to a conference for that project.Aug 04 12:49:50 <ryangorley> Sorry to butt in, but 1) how does the project make Patreon contributors aware that a developer's approved status is revoked, in such a case as they just stop doing anything really useful? And 2) how do you ensure unattractive work, like bug squashing and re-basing, is still happening?Aug 04 12:50:03 <doctormon> Without evidence on unjust double funding, it's hard to create any sort of policy.Aug 04 12:50:38 <Mc> ryangorley: patrons on patreon get/expect regular updates from their fundeesAug 04 12:51:03 <doctormon> ryangorley: good questions. 1) We can hit developers over the head with the trademark policy, they have to change the branding of their patreaon pages.Aug 04 12:51:03 <Ede_123> ryangorley: +1 for 2) ! We already lack in that regard...Aug 04 12:51:14 <Mc> so if they don't hear any update/progress/activity from a "creator", they will probably reconsider their pledgeAug 04 12:51:27 <Mc> (all pledges on patreon are revocable)Aug 04 12:51:34 <doctormon> ryangorley: I expect bug management to get a boost from the proposed system, since devs aren't pushed to work on anything particual from their contributors.Aug 04 12:52:14 * doctormon is worried bryce is seething about all the work on the project's based system. You ok?Aug 04 12:52:41 <Ede_123> one of the things I fear most: Such a system might force devs into doing a lot of PR if they want to earn a dime (is this really what we want?)Aug 04 12:53:05 <Ede_123> devs are ususally not good PR-peopleAug 04 12:53:09 <Mc> not sure how that can be a bad thingAug 04 12:53:14 <Ede_123> (and shouldn't have to be)Aug 04 12:53:26 <doctormon> ryangorley: What would you do to centralise such PR for the project?Aug 04 12:53:58 <ryangorley> I've seen Gimp do it a little in their social media, to some effect...Aug 04 12:54:10 <bryce> doctormon, not seething, just discouraged.Aug 04 12:54:15 <ryangorley> I contribute to one of their devs, but I'm sure there are others that I don't even know aboutAug 04 12:55:11 <bryce> alright, we're about at the hour, there was just one other topic I wanted to discussAug 04 12:55:15 <doctormon> bryce: *hug* this is a very raw idea here. But project management stuff could still be useful.Aug 04 12:55:16 <Mc> (NB for clarity: I have a patreon page set up which I did not advertize it at all, waiting for this discussion to ponder if/how/when to go on)Aug 04 12:56:01 <bryce> we've been occasionally having development meetings following the board meeting, but I know it gets late for Tav and others in Europe, so to help them out wanted to see if people would be open to moving the board meeting 1 hr earlier?Aug 04 12:56:12 <doctormon> +1Aug 04 12:56:20 <bryce> I figure if we're bringing on new people this would be a good point to make such an adjustmentAug 04 12:57:55 <Tavmjong> +1Aug 04 12:57:57 <doctormon> Would 10am Holywood be a good time?Aug 04 12:58:07 <Mc> what's that CET ?Aug 04 12:58:08 <tedg> I have no major issue with that, but would prefer -2 to -1.Aug 04 12:58:27 <tedg> Moves it around lunch :-)Aug 04 12:58:29 <bryce> I could do either -1 or -2 hrsAug 04 12:58:50 <doctormon> Aye, -2 would be 1pm here, so just after lunch for me.Aug 04 12:58:58 <bryce> -2 then?Aug 04 12:59:03 <Mc> 7pm europe ?Aug 04 12:59:32 <Tavmjong> That would be fine with me.Aug 04 12:59:46 <Mc> a bit early for me, but probably goodAug 04 12:59:51 <bryce> ok, will get that set up for next month.Aug 04 13:00:31 * tedg updates his calendarAug 04 13:00:38 <bryce> == Other Business ==Aug 04 13:00:52 <bryce> any last minute items before we close?Aug 04 13:01:52 <bryce> ok thanks allAug 04 13:01:57 <bryce> = End of Meeting =
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