Domov » Bryce Harrington » Resources » PasteBin » Board Meeting - September 1, 2017
  1. Sep 01 10:00:25 <Tavmjong> ======== Board Meeting =========
  2. Sep 01 10:00:38 <Tavmjong> Who is here?
  3. Sep 01 10:00:56 * ryangorley is eavesdropping
  4. Sep 01 10:00:59 <doctormon> here
  5. Sep 01 10:01:01 * Mc same
  6. Sep 01 10:03:13 <Tavmjong> bryce: ?
  7. Sep 01 10:03:44 <Mc> tedg: ?
  8. Sep 01 10:03:55 <Tavmjong> ScislaC: ?
  9. Sep 01 10:04:15 <bryce> heya
  10. Sep 01 10:04:27 <bryce> http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Board_Meetings
  11. Sep 01 10:04:45 <bryce> Agenda:
  12. Sep 01 10:04:45 <bryce> + GSoC 2017 wrap up
  13. Sep 01 10:04:45 <bryce> + Sponsor acceptance/approval criteria
  14. Sep 01 10:04:45 <bryce> + Board election status
  15. Sep 01 10:04:45 <bryce> + Other business
  16. Sep 01 10:04:46 <bryce>
  17. Sep 01 10:05:09 <bryce> thanks for coming, sorry for the short notice. Worried that that plus time change.
  18. Sep 01 10:05:15 <Tavmjong> Start with GSoC?
  19. Sep 01 10:05:38 <bryce> Tavmjong, yes please do. I gather it's completed now?
  20. Sep 01 10:05:44 <Tavmjong> ======== GSoC 2017 Wrap Up ========
  21. Sep 01 10:06:01 <Tavmjong> Just need to do final evaluations.
  22. Sep 01 10:06:49 <Tavmjong> Alex did a pretty complete implementation of SVG 2 text. It will need some serious testing.
  23. Sep 01 10:07:45 <Tavmjong> Vishal implemented CSS 3 pseudo selectors. I hope to get this committed this week.
  24. Sep 01 10:08:23 <Tavmjong> So, I would say ti was a pretty successful year.
  25. Sep 01 10:08:53 <doctormon> Well done everyone!
  26. Sep 01 10:08:54 <bryce> that's great to hear
  27. Sep 01 10:09:27 <bryce> is the SVG 2 text in a branch or landed on trunk?
  28. Sep 01 10:09:30 <Tavmjong> I believe Mc and ScislaC will be attending the GSoC Mentor's conference.
  29. Sep 01 10:09:58 <Tavmjong> SVG 2 text is in a branch, Alex announced the branch last week.
  30. Sep 01 10:10:13 <Tavmjong> ... and asked for people to test.
  31. Sep 01 10:10:19 <Mc> (it's in his repo, not in a branch of the main repo)
  32. Sep 01 10:10:35 <bryce> ah
  33. Sep 01 10:11:29 <Tavmjong> There will be a bit of polishing to do... The biggest advantage for us is that flowed text will have built in SVG 1.1 fallback.
  34. Sep 01 10:11:56 <bryce> is Alex planning to continue on with this work?
  35. Sep 01 10:12:15 <Mc> AlexRoman_m: ^ ?
  36. Sep 01 10:12:50 <Tavmjong> He's got a few bugs to fix according to his README file.
  37. Sep 01 10:12:57 <AlexRoman_m> Oh, yes
  38. Sep 01 10:13:15 <bryce> AlexRoman_m, heya :-) and thanks again so much for all your work!
  39. Sep 01 10:13:25 <AlexRoman_m> I want to maintain and resolve all the bugs that might occur
  40. Sep 01 10:13:38 <Tavmjong> AlexRoman_m: We really appreciate that!
  41. Sep 01 10:13:38 <Mc> yay
  42. Sep 01 10:13:50 <AlexRoman_m> Oh, thank you too ^^
  43. Sep 01 10:14:40 <bryce> AlexRoman_m, have you been getting testing feedback from many people so far?
  44. Sep 01 10:15:00 <AlexRoman_m> 0
  45. Sep 01 10:15:09 <AlexRoman_m> :(
  46. Sep 01 10:15:29 <Tavmjong> Would it help to move the branch to the main repo?
  47. Sep 01 10:15:33 <AlexRoman_m> I mean excepting the mentors of course
  48. Sep 01 10:15:48 <Mc> I plan on spending part of tomorrow on it to find bugs :p
  49. Sep 01 10:16:09 <Mc> Tavmjong: I don't think so (not much)
  50. Sep 01 10:16:36 <Tavmjong> I'll be spending time next week writing SVG tests (also needed for the SVG spec).
  51. Sep 01 10:16:37 <Mc> there is a large overlap between people knowing how to switch branch and how to clone/fetch another repo ^^
  52. Sep 01 10:16:38 <AlexRoman_m> Tavmjong: I don't know
  53. Sep 01 10:17:07 <Mc> Tavmjong: cool
  54. Sep 01 10:17:25 <AlexRoman_m> Tavmjong: great!
  55. Sep 01 10:18:48 <Tavmjong> Move to next topic?
  56. Sep 01 10:18:52 <Mc> ( Tavmjong: btw, someone on twitter complained about thai text being mixed a bit like the arabic text in mr 71)
  57. Sep 01 10:19:23 <bryce> AlexRoman_m, su_v is another great tester you might touch base with, she does an amazing job with her feedback
  58. Sep 01 10:19:32 <Tavmjong> Mc: I plan on also getting that patch into trunk but I want to check one thing first.
  59. Sep 01 10:20:35 <doctormon> You'd be surprised at the trunkness of most developers
  60. Sep 01 10:21:01 <bryce> Tavmjong, I know we always have trouble getting testing attention on branches vs. trunk but obviously getting the bugs fixed on a branch before landing would cause least disruption for everyone.
  61. Sep 01 10:21:29 <AlexRoman_m> bryce: great, it will surelly help
  62. Sep 01 10:22:27 <bryce> Tavmjong, would the CSS 3 pseudo selectors feature benefit from wider testing before it lands, or is it more straightforward of a change?
  63. Sep 01 10:22:31 <Mc> bryce: automatic tests as extensive as possible will also help lessen disruption
  64. Sep 01 10:22:56 <doctormon> Agreed
  65. Sep 01 10:23:02 <Mc> bryce: afaiu, not "straightforward", but quite isolated
  66. Sep 01 10:23:08 <bryce> Tavmjong, also, do you know if Vishal is going to be sticking around?
  67. Sep 01 10:23:15 <Mc> (ie its changes should not cause regressions)
  68. Sep 01 10:23:22 <bryce> Mc, ok that's great
  69. Sep 01 10:23:50 <Tavmjong> bryce: CSS 3 pseudo selectors are pretty much contained in a small section of code so I am not worried to much about regressions (he's also created a variety of test files).
  70. Sep 01 10:24:04 <Mc> good
  71. Sep 01 10:24:15 <bryce> Tavmjong, ah perfect
  72. Sep 01 10:24:46 <Tavmjong> He'll be sticking around. He would like to work on implementing the @font-face rule (but this is not trivial).
  73. Sep 01 10:25:00 <bryce> Mc, do we have very much test coverage for text yet?
  74. Sep 01 10:25:20 <Mc> none
  75. Sep 01 10:25:38 <Tavmjong> libcroco actually handles @font-face fine but we need a lot of work outside of libcroco to make it useful.
  76. Sep 01 10:25:39 <Mc> the only test coverage we have is "inkscape runs and can render a test file containing a rectangle"
  77. Sep 01 10:25:52 <Mc> which is already a lot :p
  78. Sep 01 10:25:52 <bryce> Mc, yeah that's what I thought :-)
  79. Sep 01 10:26:07 <Mc> but i made it very easy to add tests
  80. Sep 01 10:26:10 <bryce> yeah
  81. Sep 01 10:26:30 <doctormon> Mc: Would a test event be a good thing to set up?
  82. Sep 01 10:26:40 <Tavmjong> We do have a large set of test files from our old test suite that should be added/adapted.
  83. Sep 01 10:26:43 <bryce> maybe next year's GSoC could focus more on helping us flesh out the test suite in areas that are going to be important in coming releases
  84. Sep 01 10:26:58 <Mc> doctormon: well, sure
  85. Sep 01 10:27:04 <doctormon> Mc: I'm thinking a person of experence runs a couple of IRC based classes and we have a list of desirable tests with points awarded?
  86. Sep 01 10:27:09 <Mc> would take like half a day to do
  87. Sep 01 10:27:29 <bryce> doctormon, an online event for a test writing how-to would be lovely
  88. Sep 01 10:27:31 <Tavmjong> bryce: I don't think writing test files can be done under GSoC (unless they included JavaScript).
  89. Sep 01 10:28:04 <bryce> Tavmjong, might be worth doublechecking. Improving our tests would be instrumental for the project
  90. Sep 01 10:28:32 <bryce> anyway, just thoughts for now, discussion for future days.
  91. Sep 01 10:28:39 <Mc> not writing test files but testing every verb and ensuring they don't require gui unnecessarily would probably be
  92. Sep 01 10:28:54 <bryce> moving on to next topic...
  93. Sep 01 10:29:03 <doctormon> Mc: It's a social project
  94. Sep 01 10:29:15 <bryce> === Sponsor acceptance/approval criteria ===
  95. Sep 01 10:29:26 <doctormon> I can give the background to this one
  96. Sep 01 10:29:57 <doctormon> Since our last update and our greater push for visibility thanks to ryangorley and the vector's team. We've had a much greater attention from sponsors
  97. Sep 01 10:29:59 <bryce> doctormon, I have some thoughts here but share yours first
  98. Sep 01 10:30:12 <Mc> (doctormon: there are two things that can be tested : rendering and "behavior", the first one is more important imo, and much simpler to test (but we don't); and the second requires code)
  99. Sep 01 10:30:44 <doctormon> Some sponsors are easy peasy, we got $10k from Private Internet for a plantum sponsorship, they've got a proven track record with other open source projects (and the conservancy)
  100. Sep 01 10:30:52 <Mc> :)
  101. Sep 01 10:31:06 <doctormon> But we also got a couple of sponsorshipsat the bronze or silver levels which were clearly more in an attempt to get links onto our website.
  102. Sep 01 10:31:49 <doctormon> When looking into these sponsors, we can't always be sure of their quality and our process doesn't really include much of a quality process to decide on.
  103. Sep 01 10:31:54 <Mc> maybe increase the sponsor price ? ^^
  104. Sep 01 10:32:03 <doctormon> Surrent sponsors: https://inkscape.org/en/support-us/sponsors/
  105. Sep 01 10:32:10 <bryce> doctormon, fwiw DealsLand also is sponsoring @ X.org now
  106. Sep 01 10:32:34 <doctormon> bryce: good to know :)
  107. Sep 01 10:32:45 <doctormon> bryce: your turn
  108. Sep 01 10:33:40 <bryce> so, I'm a firm believer in having procedures nailed down, and especially with money involved it's best if we can arrange things so there are no "judgment calls" to be made
  109. Sep 01 10:34:58 <bryce> the good news is it is totally up to us what level of expectation we set for our sponsors, I don't think we have any external requirements other than that the company is actually legal
  110. Sep 01 10:35:36 <bryce> but the bad news is that drawing a line somewhere other than that gets kind of difficult
  111. Sep 01 10:36:00 <bryce> it's hard to find corporations that aren't doing _something_ that someone will find objectionable
  112. Sep 01 10:36:02 <doctormon> That should perhaps be our minimum: "EU+USA known legal business" ;)
  113. Sep 01 10:36:49 <bryce> just in web tech alone, you've got SEO, mass emailers, and so on
  114. Sep 01 10:36:55 <Tavmjong> What kind of business is BetrugsTEST.com ?
  115. Sep 01 10:37:13 <doctormon> I'd also put these items onto the list though: Arms trading, Online Drug distribution, Political campaign
  116. Sep 01 10:37:43 <bryce> and I worry that needing to evaluate the companies is going to be a time burden on us, and may end up boiling down to having to make gut-based decisions
  117. Sep 01 10:37:44 <Tavmjong> (Mein deutsch ist rostig.)
  118. Sep 01 10:38:06 <doctormon> Tavmjong: They test websites for malware and other nasties AFAIK
  119. Sep 01 10:38:18 <bryce> that's another good point - language limits our abilities here too
  120. Sep 01 10:39:06 <bryce> I favor criteria that are directly measurable and verifiable, like "How many open source projects have they sponsored before?"
  121. Sep 01 10:39:08 <doctormon> This is actually how this debate come up. Betrugs needed to be reviewed by our translators. They were concerned and flagged them as not trustworthy. I flip-flopped on what to do and eventually gave them a silver sponsorship.
  122. Sep 01 10:39:56 <bryce> I think if we select criteria cleverly, we can sidestep needing to evaluate companies ourselves, while still avoiding ones that might be too questionable
  123. Sep 01 10:41:32 <Tavmjong> Shouldn't pia's logo be at the bottom of every page?
  124. Sep 01 10:41:37 <bryce> I think we should start assembling a list of criteria like this - that any of us could go through and independently come to the same conclusion
  125. Sep 01 10:41:42 <doctormon> bryce: I think you have the best ideas to lay out a proposal for what critra should look like. Unless there's other suggestions?
  126. Sep 01 10:41:49 <doctormon> Tavmjong: No, I'm not putting a logo in the footer.
  127. Sep 01 10:41:57 <bryce> Tavmjong, I believe we just offer their name/link, right?
  128. Sep 01 10:42:19 <doctormon> bryce: That's it says "name and link"
  129. Sep 01 10:42:21 <bryce> "and your name and link would be available in the Inkscape website footer for a year, "
  130. Sep 01 10:42:59 <Tavmjong> Ah, I didn't see it (being such a light gray).
  131. Sep 01 10:43:27 <doctormon> Tavmjong: ryangorley has set Tim of team icons fame to have a go at the page design for us.
  132. Sep 01 10:43:47 <bryce> doctormon, I wonder if we could give platinum more prominence on the sponsors page?
  133. Sep 01 10:43:54 <Tavmjong> I think the "With thanks to..." text should be a bit darker.
  134. Sep 01 10:43:59 <doctormon> bryce: There's also the extra point of translations, how we don't guarentee the link will be in every translation page.
  135. Sep 01 10:45:12 <bryce> currently they're mixed in with canonical, gitlab, etc. which while they're definitely providing valued services those may not be quite on par, so perhaps we could have a "Service Sponsors" section?
  136. Sep 01 10:45:25 <Tavmjong> +1
  137. Sep 01 10:45:28 <Mc> sure
  138. Sep 01 10:46:07 <bryce> doctormon, also I noticed a typo in the pia text and sent a bug report with a suggested text revision
  139. Sep 01 10:46:08 <doctormon> bryce: Eh, we can pop canonical down to bronze, I don't mind being judgy about our service partners
  140. Sep 01 10:46:17 <bryce> 'The provide' -> 'They provide'
  141. Sep 01 10:46:25 <doctormon> bryce: The page is a CMS page, edit away ;)
  142. Sep 01 10:46:31 <bryce> doctormon, sounds good
  143. Sep 01 10:47:42 <Tavmjong> I wouldn't pop canonical down, but make a separate section for Platinum sponsors.
  144. Sep 01 10:48:02 <doctormon> I do want to clear the page up a bit using a team list plugin, basically each sponsor would be a user member of a team and we can track their time periods by just expiring them from the team... for future development/management.
  145. Sep 01 10:48:30 <jabiertxof_> Need to go. Maybe could be a good idea send the link to the meetengs log to the mailing list. See all
  146. Sep 01 10:48:40 <doctormon> It would clean the translations issue away at least.
  147. Sep 01 10:48:48 <doctormon> jabiertxof_: thanks for attending!
  148. Sep 01 10:49:12 <jabiertxof_> :)
  149. Sep 01 10:50:56 <doctormon> bryce: Do you want to come back to us next meeting with a guidelines document? doctormon can help draft it.
  150. Sep 01 10:50:59 <bryce> ok, so back to criteria, shall I start a wiki page for us to brainstorm and collect ideas? Anyone have thoughts of what should be on it?
  151. Sep 01 10:51:17 <bryce> doctormon, yes that's what I'm thinking
  152. Sep 01 10:51:36 <doctormon> I think people have had their chance to add, not sure there's many other ideas.
  153. Sep 01 10:51:43 <bryce> would appreciate the help, this is going to be a busy work month for me
  154. Sep 01 10:52:04 <bryce> doctormon, there's always more ideas. :-)
  155. Sep 01 10:52:31 <bryce> main thing here is to massage them into processes that are measurable and verifiable
  156. Sep 01 10:53:52 <bryce> doctormon, ok I'll touch base with you later once I've set up a page for us to do the drafting
  157. Sep 01 10:54:01 <doctormon> +1
  158. Sep 01 10:54:05 <bryce> === Board election ===
  159. Sep 01 10:54:23 <doctormon> OK, I get to show off a bit of work I've been doing on this one.
  160. Sep 01 10:54:30 <bryce> (sorry we've not left more time for this item, it's the most important one...)
  161. Sep 01 10:54:41 <Mc> well, it's still early :p
  162. Sep 01 10:54:47 <doctormon> So this is the test election, please visit it: https://inkscape.org/en/*inkscape-vectors/elections/test-election-2017/
  163. Sep 01 10:55:30 <doctormon> Members of the vectors team can invite and vote on this election. So if you are a member, I'm going to move it to 'invite' so you can see that part of it.
  164. Sep 01 10:56:08 <doctormon> OK if you refresh the page now, you'll see an invitation box. you can search for users and then invite them to stand in the election.
  165. Sep 01 10:57:01 <doctormon> Correction: Inkscape Vectors is the team being elected /to/, Inkscape developers is the team of people who can vote in this teast.
  166. Sep 01 10:57:15 <doctormon> (the plan is to add all the developers to the developers team so they all get a vote)
  167. Sep 01 10:59:24 <bryce> doctormon, I invited Tav... seems to work :-)
  168. Sep 01 11:00:02 <Tavmjong> I just accepted.
  169. Sep 01 11:00:05 <bryce> doctormon, as an inviter it'd be interesting to see what the invitation text being sent will say
  170. Sep 01 11:00:16 <doctormon> bryce: Good idea
  171. Sep 01 11:00:51 <bryce> doctormon, will this also manage the election itself?
  172. Sep 01 11:01:11 <bryce> tallying votes and so on? Or does this hook into the other software we used last time?
  173. Sep 01 11:01:21 <doctormon> bryce: Yes, it pulls the elections forward, it sends emails to the mailing list, it conducts an STV election using ranked votes.
  174. Sep 01 11:01:48 <doctormon> I believe the STV pycorevote is the same under the hood system.
  175. Sep 01 11:01:53 <bryce> doctormon, nice work
  176. Sep 01 11:02:46 <bryce> doctormon, for transparency purposes could you include a link to pycorevote in the voting rules (and/or to our own implementation on gitlab)? I'm sure there'll be questions.
  177. Sep 01 11:03:51 <doctormon> bryce: Yes, the idea is that the system will display results and those results will include what voting system was used, this is so we can digest older elections into it.
  178. Sep 01 11:03:58 <doctormon> (I already see a bug)
  179. Sep 01 11:04:23 <doctormon> Time to vote on me and tav :)
  180. Sep 01 11:05:46 <doctormon> OK so the drag and drop sortable.js isn't working :/ on live.
  181. Sep 01 11:06:30 <doctormon> Ah I know what's going on. OK thaks for testing everyone. The software is almost complete.
  182. Sep 01 11:06:39 <doctormon> And I'll run a full test election before the real one soon.
  183. Sep 01 11:06:53 <bryce> ok
  184. Sep 01 11:07:26 <CRogers> hey folks. :)
  185. Sep 01 11:08:00 <doctormon> (cool drag and drop now working, I did want to ask about this specifically if people can go back to the page quickly.
  186. Sep 01 11:08:08 <bryce> doctormon, how's the backend for setting up the election? Is it just the stock django admin forms?
  187. Sep 01 11:08:29 <doctormon> bryce: Yep, admin interface, made it easier to construct.
  188. Sep 01 11:09:10 <doctormon> The officer simply adds each of the dates for the process, some notes and their own username as officer and a unique slug name for the url. job done.
  189. Sep 01 11:09:49 <bryce> doctormon, dragging them around puts a (1) on tav sometimes, but not sure what the (1) means
  190. Sep 01 11:10:15 <doctormon> bryce: So, the UI wants to be able to have you rank people, but also for you to take the rank away if you need to.
  191. Sep 01 11:10:40 <doctormon> So it says "if you drag me somewhere, I'll rank you and everyone before you" but "if you drag me to the end of the group, I'll remove your rank"
  192. Sep 01 11:10:57 <doctormon> CRogers: Your advice would be useful here tbh.
  193. Sep 01 11:11:17 <CRogers> doctormon: at your service. What are we looking at?
  194. Sep 01 11:11:43 <doctormon> CRogers: what's your username on inkscape.org?
  195. Sep 01 11:12:08 <CRogers> C.Rogers
  196. Sep 01 11:13:09 <doctormon> CRogers: you should have a ballot for the page: https://inkscape.org/en/*inkscape-vectors/elections/test-election-2017/ allowing you to drag people around to vote on them.
  197. Sep 01 11:13:13 <bryce> doctormon, perhaps the UI could make that more explicit, I assumed it was a bug ;-)
  198. Sep 01 11:13:42 <doctormon> It's a javascript problem. Any js experts want to help me out? ;)
  199. Sep 01 11:14:32 <doctormon> bryce: OK if you're happy with the progress, we can move this on in the meeting.
  200. Sep 01 11:14:48 <Mc> I know some js, but wouldnt qualify myself as expert
  201. Sep 01 11:15:42 <doctormon> Mc: If you want to play, download the html as a block and see if there's an idea there for how to make the UI work?
  202. Sep 01 11:15:51 <CRogers> doctormon: dragging currently does nothing.
  203. Sep 01 11:16:08 <doctormon> CRogers: Are you dragging a person to the end of the line over and over?
  204. Sep 01 11:16:12 <CRogers> Though I think dragging is probably unnecessary.
  205. Sep 01 11:16:53 <CRogers> The only thing you can drag is the picture, and it's just the picture drag that's implimented in chrome.
  206. Sep 01 11:16:55 <bryce> doctormon, yes looks very good, I didn't know you were working on this but it seems to have come together quite well so far. If you're going to stick with the default django admin pages, make sure to document well in case someone else needs to run an election next time.
  207. Sep 01 11:17:31 <doctormon> bryce: Yes, there will be a how to page on the wiki: https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape-web/wikis/
  208. Sep 01 11:17:42 <bryce> doctormon, do you have a rough ETA for when nominations will be called?
  209. Sep 01 11:18:34 <doctormon> bryce: For the test election, next Friday will give me time to have a crisis or two ;) and get it ship shape. Although I may be able to kick it off today. (it's depends on the last bits)
  210. Sep 01 11:19:17 <doctormon> For the real election, I'm thinking Sept 15th or so.
  211. Sep 01 11:19:39 <bryce> doctormon, that's great to hear
  212. Sep 01 11:19:50 <Tavmjong> +1
  213. Sep 01 11:19:52 <doctormon> CRogers, Mc: Do let me know if you play with the UI, it would be good to get some help, but no pressure.
  214. Sep 01 11:20:04 <bryce> I'll be out of town for XDC, sep 19-23
  215. Sep 01 11:20:11 <CRogers> doctormon: dragging doesn't work in chrome.
  216. Sep 01 11:20:21 <bryce> XDC usually has horrible internet connectivity, but it's at Google HQ this time so who knows
  217. Sep 01 11:20:30 <doctormon> CRogers: got it
  218. Sep 01 11:21:18 <bryce> CRogers, thanks for banging on it as much as you can, will hopefully save others some headaches when we get to the election :-)
  219. Sep 01 11:21:31 <bryce> === Other Business ===
  220. Sep 01 11:21:50 <bryce> Any one else have agenda items to be added?
  221. Sep 01 11:21:57 <CRogers> I'd be content with up/down arrows to rank.
  222. Sep 01 11:22:00 <bryce> or items we should think about for next meeting?
  223. Sep 01 11:22:06 <doctormon> GitLab is moving to a more tiered price system. Maren points out open source projects are exempt. We should keep an eye on it.
  224. Sep 01 11:22:29 <Tavmjong> Budget. What is our current balance?
  225. Sep 01 11:23:47 <Mc> oh, I missed that "We're still committed to open-source software, so all paid features are also available to all public projects on GitLab.com."
  226. Sep 01 11:24:06 <Mc> so we're definitely fine
  227. Sep 01 11:24:37 <bryce> doctormon, yes that's a good item, in fact i'm looking at the email now. In particular, I'd be interested to know if we self-hosted a gitlab instance would we gain back any functionality?
  228. Sep 01 11:24:39 <doctormon> Tavmjong: Loadsa money.
  229. Sep 01 11:25:07 <doctormon> bryce: It's more setup, and I think we may actually loose some functionality (maybe not stuff we use though)
  230. Sep 01 11:25:13 <bryce> I am perpetually procrastinating doing the budget update :-(
  231. Sep 01 11:25:34 <Mc> bryce: the change does not affect us, all our project are public
  232. Sep 01 11:25:39 <doctormon> Hackfest 2018: No response yet from SIPB, will send another email out to see if I can get a date for us to start planning around.
  233. Sep 01 11:25:48 <bryce> I'll bump it up my todo list. Esp. with the platinum sponsor we should sharpen pencils on plans
  234. Sep 01 11:26:21 <doctormon> bryce: I'd like at least our budget/totals to be available on the wiki. We can talk about if it's possible to automate.
  235. Sep 01 11:26:25 <CRogers> doctormon: yea, I'll make you somethin nice. You want me to js it too?
  236. Sep 01 11:26:53 <Mc> only major thing we *may* gain from hosting our gitlab would be more control over bugreport import from lp if we want to
  237. Sep 01 11:27:00 <doctormon> CRogers: Would be useful, but we'd likely interlocuate, so draft first ;)
  238. Sep 01 11:27:26 <CRogers> doctormon: cool, moar soon.
  239. Sep 01 11:28:42 <Tavmjong> Maybe fund some of the projects on the Fundable Jobs List? (I think this is still a valid way to get some work done, even with Patreon.)
  240. Sep 01 11:28:48 <bryce> doctormon, traditionally most of the labor is reconciling the data from conservancy's ledger, into categories that we care about, and figuring out why numbers don't match up
  241. Sep 01 11:29:24 <bryce> Tavmjong, yes I definitely would like to get some funds on those
  242. Sep 01 11:29:43 <bryce> and esp. start recruiting people to take the jobs
  243. Sep 01 11:30:23 <doctormon> If we have the money, recruiting Mc would be a useful step to securing his services over the short/medium term as we sort out the patreon angle.
  244. Sep 01 11:30:27 <bryce> Mc had volunteered a few months back to help me here, but I've failed to touch base with him about it. Another todo item I need to bump up.
  245. Sep 01 11:31:52 <doctormon> bryce: Re money sorting. Getting the data onto a shared system would be useful to me. Even if it's not public, having multiple people access the raw data, we could develop some ways of dealing with it together.
  246. Sep 01 11:32:50 <bryce> doctormon, at some point I need to talk with you about patreon. I'm not sure it would solve the problems we need solved, and I am worried it might cause other problems. But I need to collect my thoughts and state my case there, and offer a viable alternative.
  247. Sep 01 11:33:26 <bryce> doctormon, yes I think that would help. It may be a reason to add a Treasurer role to the board, so we can get Conservancy's permission for a second person to access the data
  248. Sep 01 11:34:15 <bryce> and I would definitely appreciate help on that end of things. It's hard for me to find adequate time to give it.
  249. Sep 01 11:34:26 <bryce> ok, any other items before we close?
  250. Sep 01 11:34:38 <doctormon> bryce: making these tools is part of my lazyness. we'll talk.
  251. Sep 01 11:35:09 <doctormon> Mc: How close are you to being forced to talk paid work?
  252. Sep 01 11:36:09 <Mc> 1 month ^^
  253. Sep 01 11:37:14 <bryce> Mc, have you looked at the projects we have funding for currently? https://inkscape.org/en/projects/
  254. Sep 01 11:37:22 <bryce> Mc, are any of those items you would want to work on?
  255. Sep 01 11:37:46 <Mc> (I wrote a resume today to send a museum looking for someone to do scentific popularization in computer science)
  256. Sep 01 11:38:15 <Tavmjong> SVG2 compliant flowed text is essentially done.
  257. Sep 01 11:38:32 <Mc> I think I already removed all GList uses that werent needed by gtk calls
  258. Sep 01 11:38:39 <doctormon> bryce: For this, we might want to put together a triage package of money to do a bunch of things. It'd be really great to keep Mc on at least until the end of the year and that probably has a set price.
  259. Sep 01 11:39:38 <bryce> doctormon, yeah. let me put some thoughts together on how we could make that happen
  260. Sep 01 11:39:41 <Tavmjong> Does gtkmm need GList?
  261. Sep 01 11:39:58 <Mc> probably not, but we still have old gtk stuff, iirc
  262. Sep 01 11:40:03 <doctormon> thanks bryce :-) let's do this thing.
  263. Sep 01 11:40:05 <Mc> (gtkmm should use vectors)
  264. Sep 01 11:40:10 <bryce> Tavmjong, been years since I did gtkmm but I don't think so
  265. Sep 01 11:41:21 <bryce> ok. My father's visiting this weekend, but I will try and scrape together some inkscape time. A lot to do...
  266. Sep 01 11:42:24 <Mc> bryce: the problem with those items is that they're like 100-500$ afaiu, while my rent alone is like 800€/month, so not really viable ?
  267. Sep 01 11:42:33 <bryce> and I'll try and break out tasks I can requests others help with, so I'm not bottlenecking quite so badly...
  268. Sep 01 11:43:05 <doctormon> Mc: The idea would be to talk with you about a block grant perhaps instead. We'll talk more
  269. Sep 01 11:43:25 <bryce> I'm not sure what the 100/500 numbers are. I believe all are at $500, and some I believe we bumped up to $750 or $1000
  270. Sep 01 11:43:53 <bryce> part of doing the budget is proposing additional amounts be added to tasks still not done, and to add new projects
  271. Sep 01 11:44:19 <Mc> (I'd be delighted to work halftime or fulltime on inkscape, but i'd need more than a 30days-ahead visibility on my income for it to be possible)
  272. Sep 01 11:44:32 <bryce> Mc, but yeah we'll need to sort out stuff and get back to you. main thing right now is just understanding what areas we could tap you to work on
  273. Sep 01 11:45:10 <Tavmjong> Mc: Can you make a list of things you would be willing to work on?
  274. Sep 01 11:45:20 <doctormon> Mc: And maybe get you to work on a bunch of bug reports, that will always be popular :D
  275. Sep 01 11:45:25 <Mc> maintenance, bugs/crashes, gtk3
  276. Sep 01 11:45:39 <bryce> Mc, yeah I'm worried with us barely having any experience with this, Inkscape's pretty shaky to depend on.
  277. Sep 01 11:45:39 <Tavmjong> Good list!
  278. Sep 01 11:46:03 <doctormon> bryce: With that shakyness, I think we're in a good place finantially to take more of the risk as a group.
  279. Sep 01 11:46:05 <Mc> basically what i'm already trying to do, but during weeks instead of weekends xD
  280. Sep 01 11:46:39 <bryce> Mc, so I would not blame you for focusing on securing a firmer source of income as a priority.
  281. Sep 01 11:48:06 <Mc> what sort of income and duration would "working on inkscape" be ?
  282. Sep 01 11:48:06 <Tavmjong> BTW, there seem to still be a lot of GSList's that don't depend on gtk.
  283. Sep 01 11:48:07 <doctormon> Mc: But could you send me bryce and tav an October, November, December estimate for full and part time, what you would charge the project for your time and a brief note on what you'd do?
  284. Sep 01 11:48:23 <Mc> Tavmjong: was it GList then ?
  285. Sep 01 11:49:01 <Tavmjong> There are both GList's and GSList's.
  286. Sep 01 11:49:08 <ryangorley> It probably won't close the gap in a month, but we could do more as a project to promote the Patreon for Mc (and Tavmjong).
  287. Sep 01 11:49:21 <doctormon> bryce: I figure we can use the information to discuss and aproach the conservancy with a grant plan.
  288. Sep 01 11:49:31 <bryce> it's possible there is a prime the pump / chicken-egg deal... once we start funding work and showing success, more funds will start making themselves available
  289. Sep 01 11:49:58 <doctormon> ryangorley: bryce is currently blocking, he has counter ideas but needs time to bake them. So we're paused for a spell on that.
  290. Sep 01 11:50:27 <ryangorley> Okay, cool.
  291. Sep 01 11:50:42 <bryce> doctormon, maybe, although given we already have a pretty well scoped out plan with them via the funded project system - which I am fairly sure could be made to work here - I'd like to look at using that procedure
  292. Sep 01 11:51:07 <Mc> I honestly don't really know how to estimate my time
  293. Sep 01 11:51:45 <bryce> doctormon, the process doesn't dictate project size, so if we wanted to do it as a big block of work, or as an ala carte list, I think it could be made to work
  294. Sep 01 11:52:04 <doctormon> bryce: Using the projects system can work but the hole is always the dependancy problem. It's not a confident system because it puts all the risks onto the developer. One good thing about patreon is that it allows you to see what amount you'll get for your month and you can mess that up or grow it with more buffers.
  295. Sep 01 11:52:24 <doctormon> bryce: But I think you understand that ;)
  296. Sep 01 11:53:46 <Mc> (as a phd candidate i'm currently currently payed ~1600€ (after tax))
  297. Sep 01 11:54:10 <doctormon> Mc: Think about 20-25 hours per week for a part time gig, maybe you fit it around another gig. And 35-40 hours (depending on your local laws) for a full time gig. Try and think about how you would price your time to get what you need and note only that we're in a very rough and ready sort of stage. That will at least allow us to gadge how much mone
  298. Sep 01 11:54:10 <doctormon> y and work needs to be blocked off to make this thing stable enough for it to be useful to you.
  299. Sep 01 11:56:02 <Tavmjong> Mc: Start by estimating what you would be paid for the job you are sending the resume for (include social taxes). Then optionally discount that amount by how much you would be willing to sacrifice in order to contribute to open source and being your own boss.
  300. Sep 01 11:56:20 <bryce> doctormon, admittedly the system as designed depends on donors upping the ante on an ongoing basis, so risk is addressed by the developer simply waiting for the project's dollar amount to ripen to the level they desire. However without having the donation system hooked in yet, we won't gain that aspect just yet. So instead we'll have to just negotiate it out.
  301. Sep 01 11:58:14 <bryce> ok, doctormon and I will take it to email for further cogitation
  302. Sep 01 11:58:29 <doctormon> bryce: +1 thanks Tavmjong and Mc
  303. Sep 01 11:59:20 <bryce> ok, thanks all for attending, sorry we went over time so long
  304. Sep 01 11:59:24 <bryce> === End of Meeting ===
  307. Title: Board Meeting - September 1, 2017
  308. Text Format: IRC logs
  309. License: CC-BY-SA
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Board Meeting - September 1, 2017

by Bryce Harrington

Board Meeting - September 1, 2017

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