Inizio » Bryce Harrington » Resources » PasteBin » Board Meeting - January 5, 2018
  1. Jan 05 09:00:35 * You are now known as bryce
  2. Jan 05 09:55:49 <bryce> meeting in 5!
  3. Jan 05 10:00:17 <Tavmjong> ======= Inkscape Board Meeting =======
  4. Jan 05 10:01:41 <Tavmjong> Who is here?
  5. Jan 05 10:02:26 <bryce> I am :-)
  6. Jan 05 10:02:43 <Tavmjong> Ted sends his regrets.
  7. Jan 05 10:02:52 <bryce> crogers, ScislaC?
  8. Jan 05 10:03:08 * ryangorley[m]1 Listening in
  9. Jan 05 10:03:11 <bryce> Tavmjong, C R did too, although maybe?
  10. Jan 05 10:03:15 <bryce> hi ryangorley[m]1 !
  11. Jan 05 10:03:24 <bryce> Hope everyone had nice holidays!
  12. Jan 05 10:03:38 <Tavmjong> crogers: Said he'd do his best to attend a bit ago...
  13. Jan 05 10:03:56 <ScislaC> Hey bryce & Tavmjong
  14. Jan 05 10:04:02 <Tavmjong> ScislaC!!!
  15. Jan 05 10:04:16 <crogers> hi
  16. Jan 05 10:04:21 <bryce> (well nicer than me -- flu landed my spouse and mom in the hospital... been a busy couple weeks for me)
  17. Jan 05 10:04:26 <bryce> ScislaC, yay!
  18. Jan 05 10:04:38 <bryce> ScislaC, long time, good to see you man!
  19. Jan 05 10:04:47 <bryce> Agenda:
  20. Jan 05 10:04:47 <bryce> + Madras Printer's and Lithographers' Association
  21. Jan 05 10:04:47 <bryce> + Boston Hackfest (March)
  22. Jan 05 10:04:47 <bryce> + Merchandise sales
  23. Jan 05 10:04:47 <bryce> + Board election process review [tedg]
  24. Jan 05 10:04:47 <bryce> + DigitalOcean Infrastructure hosting [bryce]
  25. Jan 05 10:04:47 <bryce> + Preliminary preparations for 0.93 [tav]
  26. Jan 05 10:04:47 <bryce> + Other Business
  27. Jan 05 10:04:55 <bryce> == Madras Printer's and Lithographers' Association ==
  28. Jan 05 10:05:21 <bryce> martin forwarded this platinum sponsorship request
  29. Jan 05 10:05:21 <crogers> I'm here
  30. Jan 05 10:05:28 <Tavmjong> Ooh, in the hospital? Wow. My older daughter spent Chrismas eve at the emergency room getting checked for meningitis... turned out is was Scarlet fever.
  31. Jan 05 10:05:55 <bryce> I've emailed them a thank you and gave pointers for making the donation, but haven't heard anything back yet
  32. Jan 05 10:06:24 <ScislaC> Sorry I've been so absent. Apparently I got unsubbed from lists somehow and got that rectified, then I moved, then I had some new pain issues and found out I have gout, etc. But, hopefully I'm not too out of the loop.
  33. Jan 05 10:06:33 <bryce> the discussion on the mailing list sounds like some organization work needs done for how to help them best
  34. Jan 05 10:06:58 <bryce> ScislaC, wow, well I'm just glad we still have you
  35. Jan 05 10:07:21 <Tavmjong> ScislaC: yup, glad your back!
  36. Jan 05 10:07:58 <bryce> Tavmjong, my son caught something that made all the skin on his hands and feel peel off, in addition to the usual cold symptoms. That was weird.
  37. Jan 05 10:08:13 <bryce> doctor claimed that was strep. Never heard strep do that before though.
  38. Jan 05 10:08:42 <ScislaC> bryce: Jesus dude, how's Dutch holding up?
  39. Jan 05 10:09:38 <Tavmjong> I'm wondering what Madras Printer's and LIthographer's Association hopes to gain by sponsorship.
  40. Jan 05 10:09:47 <Tavmjong> (MPLA for short).
  41. Jan 05 10:11:01 <bryce> ScislaC, he's fine now, it hit him before the holidays. Thank god for modern medicine :-)
  42. Jan 05 10:11:55 <ScislaC> Tavmjong: I wonder if MPLA just wants us to push for print friendly features.
  43. Jan 05 10:12:35 <bryce> Tavmjong, well, my experience has been that a lot of business interest in foss is driven by needing an alternate in order to secure a better deal with proprietary vendors. I don't want to be so cynical but this has been so common in my experience it has to be my first guess.
  44. Jan 05 10:13:16 <ScislaC> bryce: interesting
  45. Jan 05 10:13:45 <Tavmjong> But they wouldn't need to be a sponsor for that (unless they want to show their vendor a response from us).
  46. Jan 05 10:14:02 <bryce> the specific issue they raised was that Adobe was changing licensing requirements, presumably forcing businesses to actually buy licenses who I guess hadn't been, previously
  47. Jan 05 10:14:29 <crogers_> spotty connection
  48. Jan 05 10:14:29 <crogers_> this may. it work
  49. Jan 05 10:14:30 <crogers_> not
  50. Jan 05 10:14:35 <Tavmjong> BTW, that reminds me, it might be good to ping the organization in India that did all the Indian language translating.
  51. Jan 05 10:14:41 <Tavmjong> crogers_: Appreciate you trying!
  52. Jan 05 10:14:44 <bryce> Tavmjong, yes that's a good idea
  53. Jan 05 10:15:10 <bryce> Tavmjong, do you remember who that was? Or maybe Maren does
  54. Jan 05 10:15:31 <Tavmjong> bryce: I would have to search.
  55. Jan 05 10:15:33 <Moini> No, sorry, wasn't involved.
  56. Jan 05 10:15:44 <bryce> ah too bad
  57. Jan 05 10:15:53 <crogers_> ping
  58. Jan 05 10:16:22 <Moini> (there should be a bug report, I believe)
  59. Jan 05 10:16:25 <bryce> well, it'd be nice to get a bit more info before we invest too much effort in
  60. Jan 05 10:16:43 <bryce> how about actions for now:
  61. Jan 05 10:16:53 <crogers_> getting nothing
  62. Jan 05 10:16:55 <bryce> - me: re-ping them in a week or so if I don't hear back
  63. Jan 05 10:17:27 <bryce> - Tav/Moini: find out who did the Indian language translation
  64. Jan 05 10:18:09 <Tavmjong> Sounds good... I can do that.
  65. Jan 05 10:18:56 <bryce> we've also got a few India-based users that have contacted me. Not in Madras but they might be worth tapping to assist.
  66. Jan 05 10:19:04 <bryce> ok, on to next topic
  67. Jan 05 10:19:13 <bryce> == Boston Hackfest in March ==
  68. Jan 05 10:19:20 <bryce> http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Hackfest2018
  69. Jan 05 10:19:26 <bryce> March is coming soon...
  70. Jan 05 10:19:32 <Tavmjong> I think we need to get moving on this!
  71. Jan 05 10:19:40 <bryce> agreed
  72. Jan 05 10:19:41 <Moini> pinged doctormo a couple minutes ago.
  73. Jan 05 10:20:13 <Tavmjong> I saw Martin got a second offer for hosting from RedHat.
  74. Jan 05 10:20:23 <bryce> have dates been determined? we're getting to the point people need to make travel arrangements
  75. Jan 05 10:20:55 <Tavmjong> Yes, dates were fixed.
  76. Jan 05 10:20:59 <bryce> sounded like if it's at redhat, that'd remove the requirement that it be in March. Could bump the date
  77. Jan 05 10:21:39 <Tavmjong> March 26-30
  78. Jan 05 10:22:01 <Tavmjong> LIbre Planet Boston is the 24/25
  79. Jan 05 10:22:03 <bryce> ah, ok the wiki page didn't list them
  80. Jan 05 10:22:15 <Tavmjong> I'll double check the dates and get them on the page.
  81. Jan 05 10:22:28 <bryce> end of march gives a bit more time. But I agree, if it's gonna happen, need to get moving on it
  82. Jan 05 10:22:49 <Tavmjong> We'll need a board vote for approving funds... we can copy/paste last years vote.
  83. Jan 05 10:22:53 <bryce> need to put together an attendee list too
  84. Jan 05 10:23:13 <Tavmjong> I wish Martin was here!!
  85. Jan 05 10:23:39 <bryce> Tavmjong, ok, I can do that action item, if you can get the page polished up a bit. Agree about cut-and-pasting what we can from earlier events.
  86. Jan 05 10:23:55 <Tavmjong> I can do that.
  87. Jan 05 10:24:03 <bryce> Tavmjong, yeah me too, perhaps you could contact him on email and coordinate stuff?
  88. Jan 05 10:24:22 <Tavmjong> Sure....
  89. Jan 05 10:25:02 <bryce> if it's going to move to red hat, need to also know about the venue - how many can it hold, where it's at, services available, etc.
  90. Jan 05 10:25:22 <bryce> you know the drill better than me :-)
  91. Jan 05 10:25:47 <bryce> we ought to also do the usual fundraising calls
  92. Jan 05 10:26:08 <Tavmjong> There was an email from Mairin Duffy last Wednesday.
  93. Jan 05 10:26:18 <bryce> I'll take the action on that. Moini if you'd be at all available to assist I would totally love it.
  94. Jan 05 10:27:04 <bryce> ok, next item
  95. Jan 05 10:27:09 <bryce> == Board election process review [tedg] ==
  96. Jan 05 10:27:14 <bryce> Leaving this item for next month since ted's gone.
  97. Jan 05 10:27:15 <Moini> Do we need any dates confirmed before posting anything on the website?
  98. Jan 05 10:27:22 <Moini> (oops)
  99. Jan 05 10:27:35 <bryce> Moini, yes we do but sounds like we have dates decided
  100. Jan 05 10:28:05 <Moini> Will try to get hold of Martin for some info.
  101. Jan 05 10:28:40 <Tavmjong> bryce: I would also like to get a vote for LGM. It looks like Google has come through with some sponsorship money but I don't know how that impacts Inkscape.
  102. Jan 05 10:28:52 <bryce> Tavmjong, ok
  103. Jan 05 10:29:11 <Tavmjong> We talked about reimbursing at half the rate for the Boston hackfest.
  104. Jan 05 10:29:19 <Tavmjong> Which is I think reasonable...
  105. Jan 05 10:29:23 <bryce> Tavmjong, yeah
  106. Jan 05 10:29:54 <bryce> Tavmjong, can you sketch up the outline of what we need to vote on and email it to me? I can polish it up and send it out.
  107. Jan 05 10:30:02 <Tavmjong> OK.
  108. Jan 05 10:30:16 <slobeck> greetings. Sorry to bother you but i was wondering about commit ef5da1c2b7ea9ce126d89aef0d2d171f6351920a
  109. Jan 05 10:31:03 <bryce> I'd love to send some of our newer folks to LGM
  110. Jan 05 10:31:05 <Moini> Hi Martin!
  111. Jan 05 10:31:05 <Tavmjong> slobeck: We don't discuss technical stuff during board meetings... but we can do it afterwards.
  112. Jan 05 10:31:06 <slobeck> re: the stretching of the swatches.. is that the way it's gonna b?
  113. Jan 05 10:31:19 <slobeck> so sorry
  114. Jan 05 10:31:22 <slobeck> l8r
  115. Jan 05 10:31:38 <bryce> ok, next topic
  116. Jan 05 10:31:44 <bryce> == Merchandise sales ==
  117. Jan 05 10:31:49 <bryce> I see on the list that C R is having some gpg frustrations. :-(
  118. Jan 05 10:31:58 <bryce> Perhaps the password could be shared by telephone or something?
  119. Jan 05 10:32:17 <Tavmjong> What, with the CIA spying in?
  120. Jan 05 10:32:40 <bryce> heh, yeah I know this isn't exactly crown jewels...
  121. Jan 05 10:33:11 <doctormon> I was an hour out, sorry for being late everyone.
  122. Jan 05 10:33:36 <Tavmjong> doctormon: Good afternoon!
  123. Jan 05 10:33:42 <bryce> hi doctormon
  124. Jan 05 10:33:44 <doctormon> bryce: Have you seen the spreadshirt password? Talking that out would take forever ;-)
  125. Jan 05 10:34:21 <bryce> wish we could set that to something specific
  126. Jan 05 10:35:09 <Tavmjong> doctormon: We discussed a bit about the Boston hackfest at the start of the meeting. Can you give us an update?
  127. Jan 05 10:35:24 <doctormon> Tavmjong: The update is, I'm mad as hell.
  128. Jan 05 10:35:29 <bryce> also btw, the credentials repository was moved to git when we moved all the inkscape branches over. I noticed some stuff got committed to the old bzr tree, so we need to c-p those changes and land them on git.
  129. Jan 05 10:35:39 <bryce> I've been meaning to do that but haven't gotten around to it
  130. Jan 05 10:35:47 <doctormon> MIT/SIPB were updating their system, since then, they've been impossible to contact for months.
  131. Jan 05 10:35:56 <crogers> I'd love it if gpg would work, but I keep getting whole emails encrypted from doctormon with garbage in the password.
  132. Jan 05 10:36:32 <doctormon> crogers: There's a conversion you can run over it, normally an email client does the conversion for you.
  133. Jan 05 10:37:00 <doctormon> bryce: Didn't know that, those bzr changes are mine, I'll poke them over.
  134. Jan 05 10:37:09 <bryce> doctormon, thankee
  135. Jan 05 10:37:17 <Tavmjong> doctormon: I know this might be a radical idea, but can you telephone the contact person?
  136. Jan 05 10:37:59 <doctormon> Tavmjong: I tried that, people insisted on email and wouldn't hand out a phone number. Not too surprised.
  137. Jan 05 10:38:13 <crogers> doctormon, can you just use gpg to encrypt the password in a single line text file. I'm starting to foster a special brand of hatred for your email client.
  138. Jan 05 10:38:22 <bryce> crogers, that's a good idea
  139. Jan 05 10:38:36 <doctormon> crogers: It's evolution, gnome's answer to outlook. Hatred is what it's used to.
  140. Jan 05 10:38:50 <bryce> fwiw, I wasn't able to get the last password change gpg decrypted myself. Didn't rule out that I wasn't doing something wrong though.
  141. Jan 05 10:38:59 <Tavmjong> What about moving the hackfest to RedHat?
  142. Jan 05 10:39:10 <doctormon> crogers: What I'm going to do is add you to the password in the git repository, then you can download the file and decrypt it at your leasure from gitlab.
  143. Jan 05 10:39:19 <doctormon> Tavmjong: I love the RedHat idea.
  144. Jan 05 10:40:14 <doctormon> bryce: Where's the new git repo for credentials?
  145. Jan 05 10:40:27 <bryce> one sec
  146. Jan 05 10:41:02 <bryce> doctormon, it's in the inkscape repo, as a branch named inkscape.dev_credentials
  147. Jan 05 10:41:12 <bryce> which is... wonky weird.
  148. Jan 05 10:41:35 <doctormon> bryce: Understood.
  149. Jan 05 10:41:38 <Tavmjong> doctormon: 300 A Street looks like a good location.
  150. Jan 05 10:42:00 <bryce> at some point I want to split it out to its own repo, not as an inkscape branch.
  151. Jan 05 10:42:27 <bryce> so... expect another repo change at some point, but at least it's in git now.
  152. Jan 05 10:43:17 <bryce> fwiw I'd be fine with RedHat as well. Just need to make sure there's internet and adequate space and so on
  153. Jan 05 10:44:00 <bryce> we need to get everything nailed down soon though, hold the vote for funding, and get invites sent out for attendees
  154. Jan 05 10:44:06 <doctormon> bryce: That format for the credentials repo means I have to download GB of data. :-/
  155. Jan 05 10:44:18 <ScislaC> I don't think Internet would be an issue with RedHat ;)
  156. Jan 05 10:44:22 <bryce> I'd love it if we could bring in some of Inkscape's fresher blood to this one
  157. Jan 05 10:44:29 <doctormon> I've been to the space. Let me report on it.
  158. Jan 05 10:44:30 <bryce> doctormon, I know :-(
  159. Jan 05 10:45:18 <doctormon> They have just moved into a new building in the docklands area of Southie, it's a short walk from the central T stop 'South Station' and a fairly central location in the city.
  160. Jan 05 10:45:32 <bryce> ScislaC, well you never know. I had a sprint for work at Samsung, and we had no wifi due to security limitations
  161. Jan 05 10:45:44 <doctormon> The new building is a large building where they take up the whole 4th and 5th floors, most of the office space is empty.
  162. Jan 05 10:46:03 <Ede_123> doctormon: http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Working_with_Git#Single_branches
  163. Jan 05 10:47:21 <doctormon> thanks bryce
  164. Jan 05 10:47:26 <doctormon> I mean, thanks Ede_123
  165. Jan 05 10:47:28 <bryce> ok, back on merchandise sales
  166. Jan 05 10:47:33 <bryce> Last month I think I mentioned that spreadshirt isn't hooked up to ledger,
  167. Jan 05 10:47:38 <bryce> so the profits from sales haven't been showing up in our account.
  168. Jan 05 10:47:55 <bryce> Not a huge deal since there's only been test sales. But obviously needs fixed before we can roll out.
  169. Jan 05 10:48:00 <bryce> I took an action item to email SFC, which I've done.
  170. Jan 05 10:48:07 <bryce> I haven't gotten any replies from SFC on anything the past month.
  171. Jan 05 10:48:14 <bryce> guess they're really busy with EOY stuff
  172. Jan 05 10:48:54 <bryce> I suppose theme of this meeting is going to be "Hard to get a reply from X"
  173. Jan 05 10:49:03 <bryce> Also, worth mentioning here that Tony has been our contact,
  174. Jan 05 10:49:08 <bryce> but he's moving on from SFC to Mozilla Foundation.
  175. Jan 05 10:49:14 <bryce> I've emailed Karen to ask who our contact should be for this going forward.
  176. Jan 05 10:50:26 <bryce> crogers_, thanks for putting time into this, sorry the hitches are getting frustrating. Pull me in if the blocks don't clear soon.
  177. Jan 05 10:51:03 <bryce> crogers_, if you've got additional things to mention, please do
  178. Jan 05 10:51:10 <bryce> == Infrastructure backup/alternate hosting ==
  179. Jan 05 10:51:17 <bryce> I started getting things rolling with DigitalOcean
  180. Jan 05 10:51:22 <bryce> specifically to get SFC to set up the account.
  181. Jan 05 10:51:37 <bryce> Brett spotted an issue in the Terms & Conditions back before Christmas, but I haven't heard resolution on this yet.
  182. Jan 05 10:52:02 <bryce> I've repinged Brett a couple times now, but haven't gotten a response yet.
  183. Jan 05 10:52:15 <bryce> Unfortunately, that has to be done before I can move forward.
  184. Jan 05 10:52:33 <bryce> I also sent a thank you to DigitalOcean but got just a robo reply :-/
  185. Jan 05 10:52:33 <bryce>
  186. Jan 05 10:52:46 <bryce> But good news is that meanwhile, Ryan scored a second hosting offer yesterday.
  187. Jan 05 10:52:57 <bryce> CloudScale.ch is based in Switzerland, also a cloud service provider.
  188. Jan 05 10:53:25 <bryce> this offer's not dollar or time limited, sounds like they can provide broader and bigger service
  189. Jan 05 10:53:29 <doctormon> Sounds good to have backups
  190. Jan 05 10:53:31 <Moini> ryangorley: thanks!
  191. Jan 05 10:53:51 <bryce> They've set me up today with a test account and some credits, so I can start tire kicking on that.
  192. Jan 05 10:54:03 <Tavmjong> Sounds good!
  193. Jan 05 10:54:15 <bryce> registration with them didn't require a credit card, so this doesn't look like it's needs to block on SFC
  194. Jan 05 10:54:35 <bryce> also, as far as I understand, will be no expense to us
  195. Jan 05 10:54:42 * ryangorley gives a thumbs up
  196. Jan 05 10:55:01 <doctormon> bryce: Sounds ideal tbh
  197. Jan 05 10:55:02 <bryce> ryangorley, thanks again for getting the connections made!
  198. Jan 05 10:55:14 <doctormon> Let me know when I can bring Ian in to do the mailing list upgrade work
  199. Jan 05 10:55:20 <ryangorley> Was just an email, but glad it helped :)
  200. Jan 05 10:55:43 <bryce> I really like that there's an actual person replying to the emails :-)
  201. Jan 05 10:56:03 <bryce> ok, onward, last agenda item
  202. Jan 05 10:56:11 <bryce> == Preliminary preparations for 0.93 ==
  203. Jan 05 10:56:19 <bryce> One of the issues we talked about last month was the GPLv3 licensing with the gimp widget.
  204. Jan 05 10:56:24 <bryce> Big thanks go to Tav for getting that squared away. Sounds like everything's done?
  205. Jan 05 10:56:55 <bryce> Another issues I raised last month was that the Launchpad PPA was broken.
  206. Jan 05 10:57:01 <bryce> I touched base with Alex on it and he got it all sorted.
  207. Jan 05 10:57:02 <Tavmjong> The license needs to be updated in the other two Gimp widgets.
  208. Jan 05 10:57:26 <Tavmjong> There is still some brokenness...
  209. Jan 05 10:57:36 <bryce> Tavmjong, anything serious?
  210. Jan 05 10:57:51 <Tavmjong> Trusty uses GTK 3.8 and we have code that uses 3.10.
  211. Jan 05 10:58:01 <bryce> ah
  212. Jan 05 10:58:19 <Tavmjong> I thinks we should drop support for 3.8 personally. It's four years old and who uses Inkscape on servers?
  213. Jan 05 10:58:56 <bryce> Tavmjong, yeah for desktops Trusty is ancient. Also we probably have many months before release, so it'll be even more ancient by the time its out
  214. Jan 05 11:00:05 <Tavmjong> There is still a major slowdown on Windows with GTK 3 but it seems that some progress is being made on it.
  215. Jan 05 11:00:15 <bryce> I am not super worried about that right now, as long as we have a task to revisit before release
  216. Jan 05 11:00:21 <doctormon> The next Ubuntu LTS is in April, supporting 16.04 up would be doable
  217. Jan 05 11:00:41 <Ede_123> Performance is still nowhere usable...
  218. Jan 05 11:00:54 <Ede_123> so this is still high priority for Windows.
  219. Jan 05 11:00:59 <doctormon> (I wanted to add a widget that required Gtk 3.20 anyway ;-))
  220. Jan 05 11:01:03 <bryce> clarification by "about that" I mean "about Trusty legacy support"
  221. Jan 05 11:01:49 <Tavmjong> doctormon: Which widget?
  222. Jan 05 11:02:17 <Tavmjong> 16.04 has GTK 3.18
  223. Jan 05 11:02:27 <Moini> 16.04 is using 3.18
  224. Jan 05 11:02:30 <Moini> Oh.
  225. Jan 05 11:03:07 <Tavmjong> Ede_123: Do you know if this is a GTK 3 problem or change in Inkscape since 0.92?
  226. Jan 05 11:04:01 <Ede_123> Could be both... (we had performance issues in 0.92.x which were resolved by reverting some code
  227. Jan 05 11:04:02 <bryce> Ede_123, what's currently blocking getting the Windows performance sorted out?
  228. Jan 05 11:04:16 <Ede_123> It seems a big part ist gtk3
  229. Jan 05 11:04:34 <Ede_123> But Yale figured out some things that can also be optimized in Inkscape
  230. Jan 05 11:04:54 <Tavmjong> Recall that KK made changes to get rendering working on GTK 3 so that might have introduced a slowdown.
  231. Jan 05 11:05:14 <Ede_123> What's blocking is someone who knows enough about Inkscape renderer and gtk3 :-/
  232. Jan 05 11:05:36 <Ede_123> I hoped for some support from gtk3-folks but that does not seem to happen
  233. Jan 05 11:06:09 <Ede_123> If it's a fundamental issue with gtk3 we might have a big problem at our hands
  234. Jan 05 11:06:26 <Tavmjong> There is GUADEC in Spain this summer. Last time I IRC'ed with the GTK people is seemed like we could get in person help if we go.
  235. Jan 05 11:06:43 <bryce> has there been profiling done to identify where the slow chunk of code is?
  236. Jan 05 11:06:47 <Tavmjong> (that was for last year's GUEDEC)
  237. Jan 05 11:07:18 <Ede_123> Personally I have not enough experience with profiling, Yale made some progress on that lately
  238. Jan 05 11:07:32 <doctormon> Tavmjong: I think the widget is lost to time since my hard drive blew up in november :-/ it was a graph widget for the filter editor.
  239. Jan 05 11:08:00 <bryce> Ede_123, I've not done profiling on windows but on linux there's several tools that make it quite easy
  240. Jan 05 11:09:05 <Ede_123> bryce: Would be great if there was an option... Yale worked with printf-statements, so also quite low level I think
  241. Jan 05 11:10:47 <bryce> Ede_123, on linux the tool is 'perf' (aka Linux perf). Very powerful, but basic usage is pretty easy. Even possible to make pretty node tree diagrams to analyze the flow
  242. Jan 05 11:11:28 <bryce> Ede_123, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_performance_analysis_tools shows some other windows tools
  243. Jan 05 11:12:09 <bryce> I suspect if someone on Windows can gather profiling output, it might enable non-Windows devels to make some better educated guesses
  244. Jan 05 11:13:12 <bryce> Ede_123, if you can get the data, I can commit to taking a look at it.
  245. Jan 05 11:13:31 <bryce> Ede_123, let's get this issue sorted. :-)
  246. Jan 05 11:13:47 <Ede_123> If I get something working I'll happily provide data...
  247. Jan 05 11:14:11 <bryce> I'm willing to try and pull some of our past devels out of retirement if it is indeed in our own renderer code
  248. Jan 05 11:14:20 <bryce> if it's in cairo I can maybe work on it directly
  249. Jan 05 11:14:36 <bryce> if it's in gtk3 code, well, that may be trickier but where there's a will there's a way
  250. Jan 05 11:14:57 <Ede_123> Just to be clear: It's certainly not only our own renderer code as I could reproduce slowdowns with the gtk3-demo as well
  251. Jan 05 11:15:10 <bryce> Ede_123, ahhh, that's very good to know
  252. Jan 05 11:15:29 <Ede_123> But I wouldn't rule out we could get it up to workable speed by optimizing on our side
  253. Jan 05 11:15:37 <bryce> gtk3-demo is presumably gtk's own program? happen to know if a bug's been reported against gtk for this?
  254. Jan 05 11:15:48 <Ede_123> I filed a bug (searching)
  255. Jan 05 11:16:03 <bryce> yeah, like creating our own fast-path to work around them
  256. Jan 05 11:16:20 <bryce> Next step, once that perf issue is tackled, is wider testing.
  257. Jan 05 11:16:36 <Ede_123> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=781153
  258. Jan 05 11:16:55 <bryce> while it sounds like the daily snapshot builds are doing well, not sure how widely they're getting exercised. Probably not enough.
  259. Jan 05 11:17:24 <bryce> so, I still plan to do something a bit more organized to get more attention from testers
  260. Jan 05 11:18:41 <bryce> Ede_123, thanks, I'll review that post meeting
  261. Jan 05 11:19:01 <doctormon> bryce: There's a plan with Moini about how to present the nightly builds on the website.
  262. Jan 05 11:19:01 <bryce> ok, anything else on 0.93?
  263. Jan 05 11:19:25 <Ede_123> not exactly 0.93 - do we plan 0.92.3 anytime soon?
  264. Jan 05 11:19:28 <Tavmjong> Not that I can think of at the moment...
  265. Jan 05 11:19:57 <bryce> Ede_123, good question.
  266. Jan 05 11:20:12 <bryce> I can certainly spin a 0.92.3 release. I'll add that to my todo list.
  267. Jan 05 11:20:27 <bryce> is there much on the branch so far?
  268. Jan 05 11:20:58 <bryce> Switched to branch '0.92.x'
  269. Jan 05 11:20:58 <bryce> Your branch is behind 'origin/0.92.x' by 50 commits, and can be fast-forwarded.
  270. Jan 05 11:21:03 <bryce> ooh, guess so.
  271. Jan 05 11:21:26 <Ede_123> nothing huge but some bugs were fixed - especially on Windows it would be useful as we found some issues after the MSYS2 switch
  272. Jan 05 11:21:51 <bryce> ok, my plate's full with financials and hosting and stuff at the moment, but will try to get 0.92.3 going in a few weeks
  273. Jan 05 11:22:43 <Ede_123> great!
  274. Jan 05 11:22:49 <bryce> between now and then if there's more to backport, this'd give time to do so
  275. Jan 05 11:22:57 <bryce> maybe I'll send out an email on that
  276. Jan 05 11:23:08 <bryce> ok, wrapping up
  277. Jan 05 11:23:12 <bryce> == Other Business ==
  278. Jan 05 11:23:19 <bryce> Anyone have any other items?
  279. Jan 05 11:23:39 <bryce> (Budget 2018 is still high on my todo list, hope to get it done soonish)
  280. Jan 05 11:23:53 <Moini> Don't know if Diego / alface said hi already?
  281. Jan 05 11:24:24 <Moini> Diego has expressed interest in helping with non-programming tasks for getting CMYK into Inkscape.
  282. Jan 05 11:25:15 <bryce> alface, hi!
  283. Jan 05 11:25:16 <Moini> We were talking about it before the printers association sent their email.
  284. Jan 05 11:25:28 <bryce> right
  285. Jan 05 11:25:36 <Moini> (he's at work right now)
  286. Jan 05 11:25:55 <alface> Hello everyone
  287. Jan 05 11:26:10 <bryce> we are assuming color management would be a high item on their todo list, but thats just an educated guess, one of the things we need more info on
  288. Jan 05 11:26:27 <Tavmjong> One might want to look at the latest CSS color specs. I haven't been following there progress.
  289. Jan 05 11:26:48 <bryce> so, color management is a topic we've dug into a few times in the past
  290. Jan 05 11:27:22 <bryce> however, now we have a few more different ways to approach the problem
  291. Jan 05 11:27:44 <Tavmjong> https://www.w3.org/TR/css-color-4/#cmyk-colors
  292. Jan 05 11:28:31 <bryce> so I think next action for us is to find and collect the work that's been done previously (a lot is in our wiki), and see what we have in terms of a plan
  293. Jan 05 11:28:53 <Moini> This sounds more like something to do for a programmer?
  294. Jan 05 11:29:17 <bryce> Moini, I was hoping it'd be more documentation sleuthing work, that alface could help with
  295. Jan 05 11:29:33 <bryce> not so much parsing the docs, just gathering everything together
  296. Jan 05 11:29:42 <Moini> Ah, I understand!
  297. Jan 05 11:30:20 <Moini> Who could Diego contact about this?
  298. Jan 05 11:30:36 <bryce> I seem to recall there was also some user interface planning, that could be revisited, which doesn't need programming know how, just color management workflow knowhow
  299. Jan 05 11:30:55 <bryce> Moini, I've been trading emails with him, and can be contact point
  300. Jan 05 11:31:05 <Moini> Great!
  301. Jan 05 11:31:32 <bryce> I'll try to sketch out some initial tasks
  302. Jan 05 11:32:05 <bryce> alface, I'll try and email you later today or this weekend with some ideas
  303. Jan 05 11:32:33 <Tavmjong> Oh, one more item. It's probably time to start thinking about GSoC.
  304. Jan 05 11:32:35 <alface> bryce: ok!
  305. Jan 05 11:32:53 <bryce> fwiw, one of the things I'm leaning towards ulteriorly with this is to get a plan in place that we can do fundraising around.
  306. Jan 05 11:33:22 <ScislaC> Tavmjong: do we want to do it again this year?
  307. Jan 05 11:33:30 <bryce> Tavmjong, ah yes, as the snows melt the student summer coders sprout
  308. Jan 05 11:34:06 <Tavmjong> ScislaC: What do you think?
  309. Jan 05 11:34:50 <ScislaC> Tavmjong: I could be jaded, but it feels like it has diminishing returns at this point.
  310. Jan 05 11:34:51 <alface> I dont undertand too much the technical part, but Inkscape cannot have CMYK because it's renderer, Cairo?
  311. Jan 05 11:35:41 <bryce> alface, there's a set of different problems at play, as I understand it. But we'll dig in and figure it out. :-)
  312. Jan 05 11:35:58 <ScislaC> Tavmjong: since you've been in the trenches mentoring though, I think you're you're probably better able to comment on it.
  313. Jan 05 11:36:02 <Tavmjong> ScislaC: I kind of agree (especially after trying to merge the text code in) but it might be worth applying and raising the bar on accepting students.
  314. Jan 05 11:36:04 <alface> bryce: right!
  315. Jan 05 11:36:53 <Tavmjong> alface: Blending, compositing must be done in sRGB per spec (linearRGB is an option but nobody supports that outside of filters).
  316. Jan 05 11:37:16 <bryce> I'd like to get us pushed to 1.0, which I think mostly means a lot of stabilization work and bug fixing
  317. Jan 05 11:37:28 <Tavmjong> ScislaC: We did get a Johan and a KK out of it.
  318. Jan 05 11:37:57 <Tavmjong> bryce: I can think of several projects that would focus on cleaning up our code base!
  319. Jan 05 11:38:09 <bryce> Tavmjong, make a list :-)
  320. Jan 05 11:38:41 <Tavmjong> bryce: Will do!
  321. Jan 05 11:38:55 <ScislaC> Tavmjong: Agreed. Felipe as well. But all have moved on. They were all also earlier students which kind of reinforces the diminishing returns POV.
  322. Jan 05 11:39:00 <bryce> in fact, apart from GSoC, I'm working to try and build a list of chunky projects, partly for an update to the roadmap, partly to feed GSoC, and partly for ideas for funded projects, so do brainstorm and send me ideas to fold in
  323. Jan 05 11:40:50 <bryce> ScislaC, retention of new recruits is an important topic. I've been wondering what we could do to improve that, but don't have ideas on strategies there.
  324. Jan 05 11:41:22 <bryce> I'm sure reams have been written on that, so maybe I just need to do some more research.
  325. Jan 05 11:41:38 <bryce> ok, anyway, let's close out the meeting.
  326. Jan 05 11:41:41 <Tavmjong> bryce: Students move on to bigger things and real jobs... that's life!
  327. Jan 05 11:41:48 <bryce> ===== End of Meeting =====
  328. Jan 05 11:41:49 <bryce> thanks all
  329. Jan 05 11:41:54 <Tavmjong> Thanks!
  330. Jan 05 11:42:01 <bryce> Tavmjong, indeed.
  331. Jan 05 11:42:20 <bryce> even non-students suffer from real life :-)
  332. Jan 05 11:42:27 <Tavmjong> doctormon: Can you pursue the RedHat option... we need to get an announcement out ASAP.
  333. Jan 05 11:43:13 <ScislaC> Thanks indeed
  334. Jan 05 11:43:25 <ScislaC> bryce: too true :)
  335. Jan 05 11:43:32 <bryce> I've toyed with the idea of re-contacting old Inkscapers and inviting them to return. Dunno if it'd work, but even if it netted just one or two returnies it'd be huge.
  336. Jan 05 11:43:37 <alface> bryce: for now, I have just to wait for a message from you? Or could I start do something?
  337. Jan 05 11:43:53 <doctormon> Tavmjong: will do
  338. Jan 05 11:44:30 <bryce> alface, one thing to do right now would be to get access to the Inkscape wiki, if you don't have it
  339. Jan 05 11:44:33 <Tavmjong> bryce: That's a good idea! Invite them to the hackfest!
  340. Jan 05 11:44:42 <bryce> alface, also if you don't have a gitlab account, sign up for that too
  341. Jan 05 11:44:59 <Moini> Will get Diege set up with Wiki, bryce.
  342. Jan 05 11:44:59 <Tavmjong> doctormon: Excellent!
  343. Jan 05 11:45:00 <bryce> Tavmjong, ah yes, that'd be smart
  344. Jan 05 11:45:06 <bryce> Moini, awesome thanks
  345. Jan 05 11:45:47 <bryce> alface, http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Color_management
  346. Jan 05 11:47:09 <bryce> that can be the main page for this, and links to other docs, bug reports, mailing list mails, or other pertinent info can be gathered there
  347. Jan 05 11:48:34 <Lazur> filtering?
  348. Jan 05 11:48:46 <bryce> alface, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/inkscape/+spec/icc-for-cairo
  349. Jan 05 11:48:50 <Lazur> sorry for being late to the party
  350. Jan 05 11:49:01 <Lazur> oh well
  351. Jan 05 11:49:06 <bryce> alface, you can search wiki for 'CMYK' or 'Color' and probably find most of what's been collected
  352. Jan 05 11:49:09 * Lazur looks at the end of the meeting sign
  353. Jan 05 11:49:15 <bryce> alface, also search the bug tracker
  354. Jan 05 11:49:31 <bryce> Lazur, I think we're all still here, go ahead and comment
  355. Jan 05 11:50:11 <bryce> alface, searching at https://launchpad.net/inkscape for bugs and blueprints should also turn up a lot that can be linked to from the wiki page
  356. Jan 05 11:50:15 <Lazur> gave alot of filters laying around at openclipart
  357. Jan 05 11:50:30 <Lazur> however organizing them into usable packages is a mess
  358. Jan 05 11:50:31 <bryce> googling "inkscape cmyk" might also give some stuff
  359. Jan 05 11:50:40 <houz> hi, i didn't read the backlog, but if anyyone is planning to touch color management in inkscape i would be happy if (s)he would have a few minutes to discuss with me as i have a major problem with the current limitations. :-)
  360. Jan 05 11:50:49 <bryce> Lazur, yeah I can imagine.
  361. Jan 05 11:51:09 <alface> bryce: let me understand: do I have to gather more information on internet about color management than what exists now on inkscapes wiki?
  362. Jan 05 11:51:10 <Lazur> we have started a conversation on the topic with Brynn
  363. Jan 05 11:51:15 <Lazur> looking it up
  364. Jan 05 11:51:26 <alface> bryce: sorry, my english is not the best
  365. Jan 05 11:52:08 <bryce> alface, yes, information on color management + inkscape. Add more to what exists already on that wiki.
  366. Jan 05 11:52:20 <houz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/1457053 is my pet bug
  367. Jan 05 11:52:34 <bryce> alface, later we will try to organize the information. Then create a plan. But now is just collect.
  368. Jan 05 11:52:52 <Lazur> here it is:
  369. Jan 05 11:52:53 <Moini> houz: no concrete plans yet, but non-programming volunteers starting to gather for helping to get it rolling.
  370. Jan 05 11:52:53 <Lazur> https://forum.inkscapecommunity.com/index.php?topic=842.0
  371. Jan 05 11:53:06 <bryce> houz, yes, would love to collect your thoughts on what needs changed.
  372. Jan 05 11:53:17 <bryce> houz, alface is collecting.
  373. Jan 05 11:53:29 <Lazur> so the initial idea of Brynn was to make a custom repository for inkscape resources
  374. Jan 05 11:53:51 <alface> bryce: is there a way to save this chat? The links etc?
  375. Jan 05 11:53:54 <bryce> Lazur, that sounds doable
  376. Jan 05 11:53:58 <Lazur> while I listed my concerns and doubts related to filters
  377. Jan 05 11:54:03 <bryce> alface, yes I can email it to you.
  378. Jan 05 11:54:13 <alface> bryce: thank you!
  379. Jan 05 11:54:16 <bryce> alface, your IRC client might also have ways to save the log. You can check.
  380. Jan 05 11:54:25 <bryce> but I will email
  381. Jan 05 11:54:25 <Lazur> first, there are alot of existing packages
  382. Jan 05 11:54:38 <Lazur> that don't have an informative labeling
  383. Jan 05 11:54:50 <Lazur> nor tiptools/comments
  384. Jan 05 11:55:07 <Lazur> *tooltip messages eh (too little seeping tim)
  385. Jan 05 11:55:33 <Lazur> that may need bach processing adding them in
  386. Jan 05 11:55:38 <Lazur> if it was useful
  387. Jan 05 11:55:59 <Lazur> because one pack usually consists 16 variants of the same filter chain link
  388. Jan 05 11:56:01 <bryce> Lazur, so like a place to more formally organize and polish them?
  389. Jan 05 11:56:32 <Lazur> more like how they could be used within inkscape
  390. Jan 05 11:56:51 <Lazur> the saving into the share library bloats the dropdown list
  391. Jan 05 11:57:01 <Lazur> too many names to track
  392. Jan 05 11:57:06 <Lazur> no preview whatsoever
  393. Jan 05 11:57:09 <bryce> Lazur, ah, so a programmatic way to organize and navigate them?
  394. Jan 05 11:57:29 <bryce> the font dropdown has kind of a similar problem
  395. Jan 05 11:57:31 <Lazur> and on top of that, my experience is I always twayk the filters between two files
  396. Jan 05 11:57:44 <bryce> I install tons of fonts and finding the subset I like to use is a pain
  397. Jan 05 11:57:49 <Lazur> so, an idea was to implement an append feature
  398. Jan 05 11:57:54 <Lazur> like in blender
  399. Jan 05 11:57:57 <alface> guys, i will leave for about 10 minutes and i'll back
  400. Jan 05 11:58:10 <Lazur> where you don't need to load in a large model just to extract a material shader
  401. Jan 05 11:58:35 <Lazur> which would work quite nice with some limitations
  402. Jan 05 11:58:59 <Lazur> as far as I understand that doesn't even work that live way with fonts
  403. Jan 05 11:59:09 <Lazur> can't add in new fonts into a running instance
  404. Jan 05 11:59:14 <bryce> yeah
  405. Jan 05 11:59:36 <Lazur> -possibly reason why inkscape created svg fonts don't work
  406. Jan 05 11:59:48 <Lazur> the other priblem of custom filters is
  407. Jan 05 12:00:06 <Lazur> the automatically generated filters are also listed with the rest
  408. Jan 05 12:00:43 <Lazur> blurring, blending modes would bloat a file with names producing a hard time extracting the right one with an append option
  409. Jan 05 12:01:23 <Lazur> so adding in a custom tag for blurring and blend modes to handle them separately would be useful imho
  410. Jan 05 12:01:53 <bryce> Lazur, I've only used blender a little, so don't have a good concept of what you mean by "an append feature"
  411. Jan 05 12:02:54 <Lazur> append is like opening an other svg with an xml editor, choosing one svg element and importing that into the current document in inkscape terms
  412. Jan 05 12:03:13 <bryce> Lazur, ah, yeah that does sound useful
  413. Jan 05 12:03:33 <Lazur> -although the automatic id-s are hard to track
  414. Jan 05 12:03:45 <Lazur> -selecting only one gradient for example
  415. Jan 05 12:03:46 <bryce> probably would have some applicability for a lot of other things too. e.g. custom markers, clipart, etc.
  416. Jan 05 12:04:10 <Lazur> bryce: exactly
  417. Jan 05 12:04:57 <Lazur> polishing the filters may have a better way
  418. Jan 05 12:05:11 <Lazur> if there was an option to handle chains separately from settings
  419. Jan 05 12:05:20 <bryce> Lazur, sounds like might make for a good GSoC project
  420. Jan 05 12:06:02 <Lazur> there are usually 16 filters in the pac with the same chain but different settings
  421. Jan 05 12:06:19 <Lazur> so if the settings could be organised into panels
  422. Jan 05 12:06:27 <bryce> if you were to write this up somewhere (and maybe include some relevant screenshots of other tools or mockups of the UI or whatever), we could include it in the GSoC projects list, if we do that this year.
  423. Jan 05 12:06:28 <Lazur> like in the built in filters with ... in their names
  424. Jan 05 12:06:58 <Lazur> ok
  425. Jan 05 12:07:04 <Lazur> i'll try to do so
  426. Jan 05 12:07:27 <Lazur> but have the feeling svg has some limits hard-wired
  427. Jan 05 12:11:16 <Lazur> on cmyk, have you looked at sk1?
  428. Jan 05 12:11:19 <Lazur> https://sk1project.net/modules.php?name=Products&product=sk1
  429. Jan 05 12:12:11 <Lazur> if they are opensource, they may have a solution that could be extracted
  430. Jan 05 12:14:41 <Lazur> on the filtering, which is the best media to gain attention?
  431. Jan 05 12:15:24 <Lazur> wiki-gitlab-launchpad-inscape.org or else
  432. Jan 05 12:15:27 <bryce> Lazur, yeah sk1 would be worth looking at. code might not be liftable but design approach might be reusable at least
  433. Jan 05 12:16:05 <bryce> Lazur, wiki page might be easiest probably
  434. Jan 05 12:17:16 <bryce> Lazur, for getting attention, we can link to the page from the GSoC ideas page, Roadmap, Project Ideas list, etc. The devel list would be worth posting to for gathering more ideas
  435. Jan 05 12:17:51 <bryce> hard to predict where to find developers interested to work on stuff
  436. Jan 05 12:18:17 <Lazur> ok
  437. Jan 05 12:18:31 <bryce> I suspect once we have 1.0 out the door, we'll be ready to start looking at some bigger feature work
  438. Jan 05 12:18:50 <bryce> esp. if we can get some new recruits on board by then
  439. Jan 05 12:24:44 <Lazur> by the way, if the filtering gets a boost the renderer would need to pair up
  440. Jan 05 12:26:26 <Lazur> the "shallow colour depth" results in artifacts
  441. Jan 05 12:26:53 <Lazur> a dithering can be added
  442. Jan 05 12:27:08 <Lazur> but that needs to be adjusted to the zoom level
  443. Jan 05 12:27:28 <Lazur> resulting a filter *optimized* for one zoom level only
  444. Jan 05 12:27:39 <Lazur> which is the opposite of scalability
  445. Jan 05 12:28:21 <Lazur> imho the filters should look good even if zoomed in -if possible to zoom in at all-
  446. Jan 05 12:29:30 <Lazur> will post screenshots on the wiki then from this as well
  447. Jan 05 12:32:11 <bryce> Lazur, cool
  448. Jan 05 12:51:08 <Mc> aaaah, I completely forgot today was already friday :( :( :(
  449. Jan 05 12:51:31 <Mc> sorry I mised the meeting :(
  450. Jan 05 12:55:13 <Lazur> tomorrow it's vectors meeting time ;)
  451. Jan 05 13:04:23 <jabiertxof> aaaaghhh lost meeting again :((
  454. Title: Board Meeting - January 5, 2018
  455. Text Format: IRC logs
  456. License: CC-BY-SA
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Board Meeting - January 5, 2018

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