On first view it does not seem to add a lot of really useful info, especially as everybody visiting the forums probably came from inkscape.org anyway (which has a proper "Learn" menu).
In particular, the tutorials are not even clickable, FAQ and Manual are already acessible from Inkscape itself and also from the website, so the only new items are the links to the forum archive (which seems a bit reactionary to post so prominently) and the "Resources list" (which seems to be @brynn's personal collection and is likely not overly helpful for the general audience?).
I can't shake the feeling that we should get rid of the "Learn" menu item, as it mostly distracts from the forum itself and duplicates info that should already be available elsewhere otherwise.
Well it started with finding the best way to share the archive which jabier made for us, out of the old InkscapeForum. And I thought, as long as we are providing that, why not provide a place where newbies can get started on their own? Because the website doesn't want to use 3rd party links, the Learn page and menu is fairly wimpy.
One thing we ask of new members, is to make a simple effort to help themselves, before they ask us. The Learn menu provides links for them to access that help.
The Learn menu also makes it convenient for those of us who answer the same questions over and over, to direct the new users to places where they can get help. (i.e. Question: "I'm an Inkscape newbie, how should I get started?" Answer: "Please see the Learn menu." For example.)
I actually wanted to call it something else. I wanted to call it something like "Help Yourself". But I don't think anyone else liked that. So we went with "Learn".
the "Resources list" (which seems to be @brynn's personal collection and is likely not overly helpful for the general audience?)
What makes you think it's not helpful for general audience? That's what I made it for. I certainly didn't make it for developers, because developers don't need help. It's primarily meant to be a centralized place where people can find good tutorials, without having to wade through a lot of the trash that you can find by an internet search. I've read (or watched) almost every single one of those tutorials (did you expand the lists, to see all the tutorials?) save a handful. So users can be assured they are worth their time. I also think it's incredibly helpful to have a list of all the external extensions, somewhere. I hope to add other resources, such as filters or icon sets, although I may have to close my site soon.
I would have it all on inkscape.org, personally. But apparently the website is allergic to "3rd party links". More broadly, it's my opinion that the project is allergic to providing support. But that's another story. But that's the gap that I've been trying to fill, with that page.
Since I may have to close my site soon anyway, it probably doesn't matter. But on the outside chance I can keep it up, how can I make it better, contents-wise?
Well, all your points make perfect sense, but as this forum is now part of the official inkscape.org website, all these things should be on the official website, not hidden in an additional menu in the forum.
The long-term goal is (at least I've been told so and I hope this is still a goal) to embed the forum within inkscape.org, so that the top-level navigation will be visible at all times, so all that the "learn" link would accomplish would be duplicating info that is already available on the page.
Having most of it on inkscape.org is basically what I suggested to remove this redundancy, although we have to be careful: inkscape.org should have a hand-picked selection of the most helpful info and references to more extensive ressources. What you have there might be such a more extensive ressource. The complete list is probably far too long to be helpful for beginners. They're certainly not useful as a first place to look for help, as new users won't know what to look for.
Either way I feel like the forum has already "too much stuff" and it already makes it hard to navigate. I clicked the "Learn" initially a few times because I thought it had info on the forum itself and was always disappointed.
Yes, when the redesign happens, hopefully things can be improved.
I think it would be easier to navigate, if the index (left column) took up the whole page. I think because it's so small, people aren't reading through the whole thing, and end up posting their message in the wrong place. We have way too many messages to move. I'm thinking if it were bigger, the board names could be seen at more of a glance, and people can find the right place easier. (Then Recent Topics could have its own page.....or maybe even eliminated. Personally I don't use it.) But that will be a bigger discussion, later on.
It sounds like you probably prefer a minimalistic design for a forum. Personally, I can't see paring it down any further. I don't see where any boards could be logically combined, except maybe not having a beginners board and lumping every support question together. I think it's more welcoming to beginners to give them a named place to post their message. (And beginners in Inkscape definitely need some solicitation, in my opinion.)
I wasn't talking about reducing the forum itself, but stripping out parts that belong elsewhere, so that the forum UI can be focused on what actually matters (e.g. the thread list you mentioned). As we develop the forum "in-house" we have some great opportunities, but we also take the risk of implementing "useless" things that don't really belong just because we can.
That's also why I opened https://inkscape.org/forums/forum-news/online-users/. We have to face the fact, that we're currently heavily understaffed wrt developers for the forum (or designers for that matter), so unless that changes we have to focus on the important parts and can not expect to offer all the features "proper" forum software has.
Forum Issues, News, and Announcements Purpose of the "Learn" link
Inkscape.org
There's a "learn" link in the upper right:
What's the specific purpose of it?
On first view it does not seem to add a lot of really useful info, especially as everybody visiting the forums probably came from inkscape.org anyway (which has a proper "Learn" menu).
In particular, the tutorials are not even clickable, FAQ and Manual are already acessible from Inkscape itself and also from the website, so the only new items are the links to the forum archive (which seems a bit reactionary to post so prominently) and the "Resources list" (which seems to be @brynn's personal collection and is likely not overly helpful for the general audience?).
I can't shake the feeling that we should get rid of the "Learn" menu item, as it mostly distracts from the forum itself and duplicates info that should already be available elsewhere otherwise.
Well it started with finding the best way to share the archive which jabier made for us, out of the old InkscapeForum. And I thought, as long as we are providing that, why not provide a place where newbies can get started on their own? Because the website doesn't want to use 3rd party links, the Learn page and menu is fairly wimpy.
One thing we ask of new members, is to make a simple effort to help themselves, before they ask us. The Learn menu provides links for them to access that help.
The Learn menu also makes it convenient for those of us who answer the same questions over and over, to direct the new users to places where they can get help. (i.e. Question: "I'm an Inkscape newbie, how should I get started?" Answer: "Please see the Learn menu." For example.)
I actually wanted to call it something else. I wanted to call it something like "Help Yourself". But I don't think anyone else liked that. So we went with "Learn".
I'm not sure what you mean by
What makes you think it's not helpful for general audience? That's what I made it for. I certainly didn't make it for developers, because developers don't need help. It's primarily meant to be a centralized place where people can find good tutorials, without having to wade through a lot of the trash that you can find by an internet search. I've read (or watched) almost every single one of those tutorials (did you expand the lists, to see all the tutorials?) save a handful. So users can be assured they are worth their time. I also think it's incredibly helpful to have a list of all the external extensions, somewhere. I hope to add other resources, such as filters or icon sets, although I may have to close my site soon.
I would have it all on inkscape.org, personally. But apparently the website is allergic to "3rd party links". More broadly, it's my opinion that the project is allergic to providing support. But that's another story. But that's the gap that I've been trying to fill, with that page.
Since I may have to close my site soon anyway, it probably doesn't matter. But on the outside chance I can keep it up, how can I make it better, contents-wise?
Well, all your points make perfect sense, but as this forum is now part of the official inkscape.org website, all these things should be on the official website, not hidden in an additional menu in the forum.
The long-term goal is (at least I've been told so and I hope this is still a goal) to embed the forum within inkscape.org, so that the top-level navigation will be visible at all times, so all that the "learn" link would accomplish would be duplicating info that is already available on the page.
Having most of it on inkscape.org is basically what I suggested to remove this redundancy, although we have to be careful: inkscape.org should have a hand-picked selection of the most helpful info and references to more extensive ressources. What you have there might be such a more extensive ressource. The complete list is probably far too long to be helpful for beginners. They're certainly not useful as a first place to look for help, as new users won't know what to look for.
Either way I feel like the forum has already "too much stuff" and it already makes it hard to navigate. I clicked the "Learn" initially a few times because I thought it had info on the forum itself and was always disappointed.
Yes, when the redesign happens, hopefully things can be improved.
I think it would be easier to navigate, if the index (left column) took up the whole page. I think because it's so small, people aren't reading through the whole thing, and end up posting their message in the wrong place. We have way too many messages to move. I'm thinking if it were bigger, the board names could be seen at more of a glance, and people can find the right place easier. (Then Recent Topics could have its own page.....or maybe even eliminated. Personally I don't use it.) But that will be a bigger discussion, later on.
It sounds like you probably prefer a minimalistic design for a forum. Personally, I can't see paring it down any further. I don't see where any boards could be logically combined, except maybe not having a beginners board and lumping every support question together. I think it's more welcoming to beginners to give them a named place to post their message. (And beginners in Inkscape definitely need some solicitation, in my opinion.)
I wasn't talking about reducing the forum itself, but stripping out parts that belong elsewhere, so that the forum UI can be focused on what actually matters (e.g. the thread list you mentioned). As we develop the forum "in-house" we have some great opportunities, but we also take the risk of implementing "useless" things that don't really belong just because we can.
That's also why I opened https://inkscape.org/forums/forum-news/online-users/. We have to face the fact, that we're currently heavily understaffed wrt developers for the forum (or designers for that matter), so unless that changes we have to focus on the important parts and can not expect to offer all the features "proper" forum software has.