Hi all,

I've noticed that very fundamental info like Inkscape version and OS is missing from many (if not most) posts in the "Support" section of this forum.

Coming from a developer-background I usually want to scream when seeing such "incomplete" threads and immediately loose interest in answering, but I'm probably also a bit impatient in that regard.

Nonetheless, do you agree that we should actively ask for this info? If yes I have two ideas how we could do it and would be interested in your opinions:

• Add a pinned thread that explains what info should go along with each new question
  (This is easy to implement, but even easier to overlook. Also I'm not sure where exactly this thread should go, as there are multiple support forums, and we probably don't want to pin it to all)
• Show the info directly within the "New Thread" form (for example below the CoC link), whenever users attempt to create a new thread in support section of the forum.
  (This probably needs some code changes, but would make the info most visible)

I concur. Perhaps standardized language to ask for that specifici information would be helpful, so the words become a routinely stated and answered portion of such postings. That uniformity could spark posters to provide it along with their question, or know that it most likely will be asked of them at a later point. Instructions for where to best locate these details (from the drop-down menus, and the comand line) and the methods for doing so (cut and paste, use the -V switch) are good examples that could be provided by both text and simlpe graphics/screenshots to supplement the completeness of each posting.

Would a "trailing" post script to the posts encourage a simlple three line convention (this has too many words, but to start it consists of this basic information):

--Inkscape Sysem Info (please provide)--
• Inkscape Version (plus build/date):
• Operating System (computerOS):

Another alternative would be to add a section to the default "Report a Bug" page (which can be launched from inside Inkscape from Help > Report a Bug) that might be specific to postings in the forums? An anchor #ahref link to that could be used as a pinned post within the forums to direct users in a cyclical fashion between the two, so there is a common hub through which to collect and begin bug reports with expectations.

In Inkscape Community, I had it set up so that members entered that info into their signature at registration.  (Compliance, even though they could opt out, was over 90%)  Of course, we don't even have signatures here.

It's a valuable feature which I have not seen any way to incorporate here.  We could write it into the rules (although I think it might already be there - too lazy to look it up).

In InkscapeForum, we just asked for the info, like we do here.

Personally, I'm content just to ask for the info, if they don't provide it.  But if Martin could find some way to do it, it would be a great feature!

Edit

Not a bad idea to ask the SVG file, at the same time....

Fyi - I made this request earlier

https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape-web/issues/392

Signatures or similar functionality has the downside, that

• new users will still not have that info set - you have to ask nonetheless
• once set, the info is prone to getting outdated, and it happens that users use more than one computer, possibly with different versions of Inkscape and even different OSs

I agree signatures are a good thing in general (but for other reasons - they often allow to add a personal touch), and they allow "power-users" of the forum to add system info, so they do not need to repeat themselves over and over again, but for me it is certainly not more than "nice to have" (whereas our forum is still lacking more important things).

On a side-note: If you're happy to ask over and over again for the same info, that certainly deserves appreciation, but I'm pretty sure you're a minority. I suspect it alienates a few of the more experienced users or at least keeps them from answering support requests.
For example I've also heard you complain about developers not being overly active in forums - that's one reason why! No developer likes to start asking questions only to get the basic info. For the issue tracker we have long issue templates to avoid this very problem. Personally I've seen threads before where I wanted to help, then read the initial post, then realized that it was impossible to help with the existing info and rather than adding a grumpy answer about how this post lacked fundamental information I went away for somebody else to ask nicely for it.

I concur. 

I did like Brynn's system where you put the info in your profile and it auto shows up!  Though easy to forget to update it when you update the version- or what if you use 2 or 3 versions... still need to know which one you have the issue in.

An addl issue along the same lines, the same questions get asked over and over and over, people aren't searching for the answer before asking, also a huge waste of time.  Not sure what to do about it, but perhaps a pinned post, or, if you do change to have some sort of pop up to ask for sys and version info, you could add on to search the forum before posting (ex, how many times can you say 'install for all users...'), when it's asked for just about every day, several times over.

Ede_123

Signatures or similar functionality has the downside

As I said, compliance was quite high in Inkscape Community.  It was automated, and done at registration (not sometime after -- it was part of registration).  Also, most users post 1 up to maybe 5 topics in the forum, and are never back again.  So even though they may upgrade someday, they are not coming back to post anymore, so it doesn't matter if the info becomes outdated.  I didn't see a problem with outdated info at Inkscape Community.

However, I don't really care how a feature to show system and Inkscape version info is implemented here.  I was just sharing how it's been done in other forums.

Ede_123

On a side-note: If you're happy to ask over and over again for the same info, that certainly deserves appreciation, but I'm pretty sure you're a minority. I suspect it alienates a few of the more experienced users or at least keeps them from answering support requests.

When I've publicly pondered why developers don't participate more in forums, the only answer which comes up is that they just don't have time.  I always thought that meant they just don't have time to visit at all.  It never occurred to me they would read messages, but not answer because they didn't like how the message was written.

If that's what developers require, to be able to participate, then certainly, the forum needs some changes, maybe drastic changes (I really don't know).  But I would not like it to look so technical and hard to use, that it scares away non-tech-savvy users.  (For reference, GitLab is like that for me.  If you can get me through to the New Issue form, I can fill it out.  But navigating GL is still a challenge for me.  I would not like the forum to be like that.)

>   It was automated, and done at registration

That does sound interesting, although I'm not sure how likely it is we'll get such a feature anytime soon. Martin meantioned he's currently focusing on other things.

Maybe the pinned thread is not the worst solution for now? Would someone want to write it (I'd like to keep out of it as I'd probably write in in technical lingo and would expect everybody to understand it)?

As for participation, I really think it comes down to finding a workable middle-ground that works for both tech-savvy users as well as casual users. It's not a black/white on/off kind of thing that determines if people participate or not, but the overall composition of a community determines how likely certain groups are to continue participating. I think our goal should be to make the community as versatile as possible, so everybody feels comfortable.

I'm not sure if a pinned thread would work very well.  Wouldn't we need one in every board?  Well, at least 2 boards, I guess....3 or 4 maybe.

To force people to read it, it would need some stern language, which arguably could come across in a negative way.  Arguably.  Like "Must" or "Please read this before posting". 

I don't mind doing it, but how hard would it be to add some text to the New Topic form?  It could either be some text which is already inside the message field, where the member fills in the blanks (sort of like the inbox bug report form).  Or it could be an extra instruction outside the message field.  It seems like it would be more effective there, than a sticky topic -- if we can do it.

If I knew how to access the code, and I could identify the part that's the New Topic form, I'm sure I could do it myself.  (I did it in SMF a couple of times, but that's a very different software.)

Fine by me (it's basically what I wrote initially). Having the info in the new topic form was my preferred solution as well.

The main complication I see is that we only want the info text when creating topics in the supprt section of the forum (i.e. not when posting new threads in other areas), right? Adding it by default would probably be straightforward, but the additional conditional would make it a bit more complicated.

Oh, I see what you're saying!

What about if  we went the easy route, and changed the New Topic form for all messages, but we made the directions (or fill-in-the-blanks) conditional.  Something like:

If you need help with using Inkscape, please tell us your Inkscape version and operating system.

Or  If you need help with Inkscape, please fill in these blanks.

But I wonder if it would be so bad, if we ask everyone for it.  That's how it worked in Inkscape Community.  Everyone who registered was asked to fill it out.

I don't mean to recruit Martin, if he doesn't have time right now.  But it seems like an easy enough job, that others could do it.  I could probably do it, if I had fairly specific guidance.

Or we could write it up as a request, and wait until it's convenient.  And just use the sticky topic until then?

I've just seen this.

The best thing to do would be to have the fields as part of the user account, or a seperate extra info model that contains a bunch of extra information (maybe as a meta model). Making it attached to the user would make it more stable and useful for the rest of the website too.

This should certainly be a feature request.The code is at https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape-web/ It can be edited and merge requests made. I would offer guidence to any merge requests.