If you open a new document the left hand corner is set to zero. If you place two grid lines on the document how do you make the intersection of those grid lines zero? So that all measurements begin at the intersection?
Yes, the kind of lines that you drag from the rulers. In CorelDraw, you could drag the upper left-hand corner of the rulers and reset the rulers to zero wherever you stopped dragging. Maybe I'm not making that real clear but just setting the coordinates seems a bit wonky...at least at first glance.
I think I understand what you're asking. And no, it is not possible to reset the coordinate system to Guide lines (or grid lines either), in Inkscape. You can set the Guides to the coordinate system, but you can't change the coordinate system to match the guides (or to match anything else).
Changing the page size will reset the coordinate system to the new page size. That's the only way I know to change the coordinate system.
Mmmmh.... It seems like I might have seen an extension, or something....LPE maybe, that will draw a number line, a simple coordinate system. But if there is something like that, it's actual nodes and paths, part of the drawing, rather than the actual coordinate system.
I think I heard that in the next new version 1.0, it will be possible to set the 0,0 origin in the top-left corner, rather than bottom-left. And also I think there's a feature where you can rotate the canvas. But that's getting away from your original question now. I just thought I'd mention those things.
If guides around the page are desired, use Menu:Edit>Create Guides Around the Page.
If viewing the negative values of the rulers is desired, simply scroll the view up/down, left/right.
To reset the origin relative to the objects in the drawing, draw a rectangle the desired page size with the lower-left corner positioned where the origin is desired and use menu: Edit>Resize Page to Selection. Delete the rectangle when done.
In the first pic, I have dragged (drug?) aguidelines from the horizontal as well as the vertcal rulers. The origins are at the corners of the page and the guidelinbes intersect at 2"x2'" from the origins (and the corner of the page).
The second pic shows the upper lefthand corner...where the rulers come together...and the arrow 'fan' which can be draaged onto the workspace resetting the origins of the guidelines.
The third pic shows that process--the red arrow and red guidelines meant to illustrate the dragging the origins--with the origins already reset at 1"x1" from the corner of the page.
Guide lines in Inkscape have an anchor point, and you can change the anchor point. You can change it manually, by dragging it wherever you want. Or you can set it precisely. Double-click on the guide to open a small dialog, and you will see where you can change the x and y for the anchor point.
The coordinates for the guide and its anchor point are the same coordinates as the rest of the document. It's not a different or separate system.
If you could explain a little more what you're trying to accomplish by resetting the guide origins, we might be able to explain better?
Edit
The extra white space is a known bug with the forum. There is no inline ability (although I wish there were).
The ability not to know when someone posts a new message while you're typing is a missing but requested feature.
Well let's say I draw...oh, something simple like a circle....and I want to set it at a certain coordinate on the page, verically and horizontally, doesn't have to be relative to the edge of the pade. I can pull a horizontal guideline and a vertical guideline, and I could pull in anotherof each to 'box' the circle. Now let's say I draw a star, smaller than the circle. And I want to put it centrally aligned with the circle and at a certain distance away from the circle.And then I want to add another figure (not a circle or a star) of yet another size. Guidelines make that easier.
Or say I want to make a couple of letters of text into vector outlines, distort (skew, stretch,etc.) individual shapes and then re-space (kern?) them and re-colour or add a fill. I could know exactly on the page where each letter starts and how far apart the center of each oject was from the previous and from the subsequent.
Maybe I'm making my objectives less clear or maybe there's and easier way? But with guidelines functioning the way I outlined in the illustrations above it's pretty simple and straightforward...and useful.
And, really (and the reason I'm asking) it's what I'm used to--all I know.
I guess I want to think that the workspace isn't, or shouldn't be, defined by the page but by the entire visible (even non-visible) screen real estate, so coordinates and origins shouldn't be anchored to the page.
(I guess spell check doesn't work on this forum either? Just so I know)
Have you found the Align and Distribute dialog yet? Object > Align and distribute.
Yes, Inkscape works a bit differently. Concrete examples will help us to help you. Post an SVG file, and post what you want the result to look like. Then we can show you how to do that.
Well let's say I draw...oh, something simple like a circle....and I want to set it at a certain coordinate on the page, verically and horizontally, doesn't have to be relative to the edge of the pade. I can pull a horizontal guideline and a vertical guideline, and I could pull in anotherof each to 'box' the circle. Now let's say I draw a star, smaller than the circle. And I want to put it centrally aligned with the circle and at a certain distance away from the circle.And then I want to add another figure (not a circle or a star) of yet another size. Guidelines make that easier
I'm not sure if I understand. But this sounds like a situation where you could maybe use relative guides. Double-click on a guide to open the little dialog box. There you can choose relative spacing for the guides. So the guides can be moved relative to each other rather than according to the doc's coordinates. It's not a feature I use, but I've heard of others using it quite a lot.
Or else, sometimes people us spacer objects. So maybe they would make a rectangle with the proper size for the space they need. Then snap the rectangle, or duplicate to the object. And then snap the next object to that.
(Also not a big user of spell check. I sure don't see anything in message editor about spell check. It could be requested though. Maybe already has been requested?)
I was afraid you would say something like that. I don't have any problem with coordinates being locked to the page...that makes sense, to me. But guidelines are, by nature, moveable, so maybe they need to be a abit more 'flexible'.
May be lots of ways to skin the cat (that's good) but IMO not all are easy and intuitive.
I'm not sure the Inkscape workflow is any less intuitive... the only difference I see is the canvas origin being locked to the page origin.
Guides can be manually dragged and snapped to specific locations, or placed with precision using absolute or relative coordinates. The same goes for objects.
Best analogy might be the operation of different cars: they all have the same essential controls, but the controls might be in a different place or look different. (Once you are familiar with different cars, you have a better ability to adapt to unfamiliar ones.)
I do a fair amount of precise fabrication work with Inkscape, and skip the CAD stage of the proccess by using guides, the transforms panel, the alignment panel and snapping.
i totaly get what you were aiming for DWFII, i do a lot of logo design and like ot mesure of a center point, so i alsowas start with a central shape and centerlines and resetting the Zero points. i came here to ask a similar thing and sadly found this thread
Are you (DWFII and Rivka) saying that other programs allow more than one coordinate system in the file? One that's only associated with guide lines, and one for the whole file?
You could always start your drawing at Inkscape's 0,0. Or reset the 0,0 relative to your drawing. But you could not make another 0,0 somewhere else in the file.
If it seems to be useful, and do-able, maybe you would want to make a feature request for Inkscape? Personally, I'm still not entirely understanding what you're describing. I think the relative guides in Inkscape probably do what you want, but I'm still not totally clear what you're asking.
If you decide to make a feature request, you can't just say - make something like this other program does it. You would have to completely describe it....or find someone who can. https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inbox/issues
I don't know how to describe it any other way. But if you look at the screen caps i posted above you can see that the intersection of the blue guidelines is zero. Let's say I put the intersection right smack dab in the center of my 'paper'. Now I can create objects...or as mentioned, 'de-textified' text a very specific measurement in either direction or all four directions.
Maybe I'm just used to a different paradigm but It seems so intuitive to me, I can't imagine any other way being anything but awkward and time consuming.
I have nothing but the utmost admiration for Inkscape and Gimp and Paint.net and LibreOffice. And I have not dismissed any of these programs--I have them on my computer and use them occasionally. Occasionally. I would like nothing better than to shed those expensive programs (such as CorelDraw, etc.). But frankly, and I mean no disrespect...Inkscape seems to be chock-a-block full of conventions that exist for no good reason except to defy convention. The issue with text that I raised in a different thread here is another one of those. Who would have guessed that you would have to convert text to curves (put on a path) before you could ungroup it...and even then, even now...I can't figure a way to put it on a path. I select with the select tool and click on Text > Put on path and nothing happens.I select Ungroup, nothing happens. I select Pop Selected Objects out of Group and nothing happens.
It shouldn't be that hard. Although in all fairness, I haven't taken the tutorials ...just hoped that years of working with CorelDraw and the similarity of the icons representing the tools combined with the similarity of stated goals and purposes would stand me in good stead and allow me to explore the interface and get up to speed relatively quickly. Doesn't look likely at this point, though.
So when you reset the guidelines intersection, it resets the rulers?
You could reset the rulers in Inkscape, by fitting the page borders to the drawing. Select the drawing, then Document Properties > Page tab > Page Size > Custom Size > Resize Page to Contents.
You don't need guides to do that. If you make a 2nd object on the page, and you want to reset it again, you need to repeat that, with the 2nd object selected. However, the coordinates from the first object will now be changed.
Or, you could start drawing in the bottom-left corner, where 0,0 is already.
But I think you're right. It's hard to expect that different programs are going to work the same way. And feature request is still possible, although it's no guarantee it would actually happen...unless you happen to have the right coding skills yourself 😉
But frankly, and I mean no disrespect...Inkscape seems to be chock-a-block full of conventions that exist for no good reason except to defy convention
I doubt seriously that Inkscape developers research all kinds of other vectors programs, to see how they work, and on purpose make Inkscape differently. I think they probably have an idea how to do something, which follows Inkscape's stated mission (being true to SVG standards, as far as I understand) and they just make it happen.
I'd be interested to follow your discussion with Martin, if you decide to reply to him.
Martin, I didn't see where multi-pages have anything to do with it. From what I can tell, it's a way to reset coordinates to a guide intersection, regardless of page borders. That would mean that parts of the page has negative coordinates, so maybe that's part of why Inkscape doesn't do it. But that's a pretty wild guess on my part.
...From what I can tell, it's a way to reset coordinates to a guide intersection, regardless of page borders. That would mean that parts of the page has negative coordinates, so maybe that's part of why Inkscape doesn't do it. But that's a pretty wild guess on my part.
You are correct.
I tried it in Corel at my office and while it works as described, I don't see the great value.
If I want to place a guide or object in a precise location, I just type in the values. In Corel, the numeric entry boxes are at the top of the work area, in Inkscape, I double click on a guide or Ctrl+Shift+M for the transforms dialog. (I don't keep it docked.)
Forget about placing guides easily in Affinity... Guides manager?. ::rolls eyes:: Guides on an angle? Pfffft. nada.
Well, I disagree with you there. In fact, I'd be very surprised if they had not looked...extensively...at other graphics programs. After all, Inkscape wasn't the first by any means. Just the interest, the curiousity, the desire to put together a piece of software that will do what Adobe Illustrator or CorelDraw or Inkscape will do, had to come from somewhere. Haven't you, yourself, ever looked at any of the alternatives? That's what I'm doing / have done. That's what Rivka is doing. Looking at alternatives. And we're just users.
I'm not a coder. I'm not even an expert with CorelDraw or any drawing program. I just know what feels 'right' to me. So, I'm probably not the best person to explain or articulate either the pros or the cons..
That said, even though I'm missing any real ability to speak to these issues, in my mind the page is almost beside the point and should not really be the focus. Ever, IMO. After all, it is somewhat arbitrary by definition. It can be, presumably, almost any size. In point of fact, you don't realy even need to define it. Nor...and perhaps more to the point...confine your work to the page. Many times...maybe most of the time...when I create a drawing, I select it and move it somewhere else. I might even generate the object off the page--in the larger workspace--and then move it to the page or even to another document. That's what the larger workspace is for, in my opinion. Sometimes I create an object and save it to a transparent .png to post on a forum.
When you think of things working that way, it almost makes no sense to anchor the guideline origins to the page. Doing so makes the page the focus, instead of the object you're creating.
Just my opinion...YMMV
And PS...while I haven't used guidelines at an angle very often, when I have, I was glad to have them.
PSS...just to reiterate--I have no legitimate standing to be critisizing Inkscape (or any of the alternatives) nor to debate these points with any of you. Only reason I pursued it was because Brynn invited me to do so.
But frankly, and I mean no disrespect...Inkscape seems to be chock-a-block full of conventions that exist for no good reason except to defy convention.
Maybe this is simply a lack of familiarity, or set of particular expectations.
e.g. Cartographers expect 0 degrees to be at 12 o'clock, engineers at 3 o'clock (Already selectable in Inkscape preferences). Engineering and scientific professions expect the orgin to be in the lower left, print and web expect it upper left (soon to be selectable in Inkscape).
Features like arbitrarily moving the origin are a means to end, I'm not convinced that there aren't just as useful features to achieve the same ends in Inkscape, like Object-to-guides. I don't see why resetting the origin can't be a part of Inkscape either, but in 15 years, there have ony been a few requests for it.
So, if the question is: "How do I achieve this end in Inkscape?", the answers may offer a variety choices that are relatable to users coming from Corel/Affinity/Illustrator/Freehand/Pagemaker/Publisher/Scribus/SK1/AutoCad/Flash/Inventor/Solidworks/Sketchup/Blender/Draftsight/LibreCad/etc, etc, etc. So... which convention again?
OTOH, Inkscape is not for everybody.... and there is plenty of good software worth paying for.
In point of fact, you don't realy even need to define it. Nor...and perhaps more to the point...confine your work to the page. Many times...maybe most of the time...when I create a drawing, I select it and move it somewhere else. I might even generate the object off the page--in the larger workspace--and then move it to the page or even to another document.
This is why Inkscape has "Resize page to drawing or selection" (with margins, if desired). I rarely consider the page, unless I'm formatting for electronic display or print. I make the whole drawing or selected bits the page when I'm done.
You can hide the page boundaries & shadow. Put a rectangle surrounding the origin and make it a group (poor-man's artboard). Enter the group and design as you would in Corel... sort of. Worth experimenting with. Output depends on destination.
Just the interest, the curiousity, the desire to put together a piece of software that will do what Adobe Illustrator or CorelDraw or Inkscape will do, had to come from somewhere. Haven't you, yourself, ever looked at any of the alternatives?
In fact, Inkscape's goal is not to be like other software. I always like to say that Inkscape has its own goals and aspirations, and being like Illustrator or any other software is not one of them. You might be interested to read this section of the FAQ: https://inkscape.org/learn/faq/#inkscape-and-other-programs Or maybe some developer would like to comment about Inkscape's mission?
As far as I understand Inkscape's mission, it's to be a vector editor which complies most strictly to the SVG standards. That's why SVG is the native format, I guess. Inkscape really could care less how Illustrator or any other software works. I'm sure some developers are aware of other software, but that's not what motivates them to develop Inkscape.
In fact, I have not looked at any of the alternatives. For my purposes as a very simple hobbyist, I'm totally happy with Inkscape! Although I think there are a couple of free vector softwares, I'm happy with Inkscape, and don't care to have to learn some other program. (fyi, I'm not a developer, I'm just a humble user)
My view is that Inkscape is a vector graphics drawing program, not a CAD program - even though there's a little overlap. Its tools are generally oriented around creating artistic results using vectors, rather than providing a toolset that is oriented around precise angles and lengths. For example, the trivial task of creating a line of a specific length and angle in a CAD program requires several steps in Inkscape.
User coordinate systems (which is what we're talking about here) fall somewhere between the two camps. They're useful in CAD and cartography work: it makes a lot of sense to be able to set an arbitrary datum in an engineering drawing, or include different views of a map at different scales, all within a single document. The SVG spec allows for this, by allowing nested <svg> elements each with their own viewBox, but Inkscape doesn't really support this. It would be a nice addition, but probably not a trivial one to implement.
As a former CoreDRAW user, this is one of the most frustrating parts in Inkscape. Using the ruler is very agile when working with measurements, and all the alternatives in Inkscape are incredibly cumbersome.
That's the whole point of a ruler, you can move it around your work and measur things. Inkscape has not the equivalent of a ruler at all.
As a former CoreDRAW user, this is one of the most frustrating parts in Inkscape. Using the ruler is very agile when working with measurements, and all the alternatives in Inkscape are incredibly cumbersome.
That's the whole point of a ruler, you can move it around your work and measur things. Inkscape has not the equivalent of a ruler at all.
Well said. I would love to use, and like, Inkscape but sad to say (and entirely on me) I can't get around that lack.
Maren, when I looked into it the measurement tool could only be used on existing drawings. You could not use it as a reference to place new objects, for example.
I see. It's possible to measure on a blank canvas, though. You can convert the measurement to an object (button with the hover text 'convert to item'), as a temporary workaround.
You can also convert the measurement to guides, change its scaling, or the unit.
It's not the same as being able to set the length of the measurement, but maybe that could be implemented.
The inkscape workflow, very generally is, draw something first, then set it's size and style and everything. Inkscape is not set up to draw something at a specific size, from the get-go. Well, not without first setting up some way to do that, like using grids or guides, along with snapping.
I think this is the point which others have been trying to make. Inkscape is not meant to be a substitute for, or free version of any other program. While it's possible with Inkscape to draw something very, very precisely, such as with a CAD program, it's not trying to be a CAD program. If it were, your complaint would be very valid.
Although you might want to chat with developers about how Inkscape is being developed. It might inform your feature request, or give you some idea whether your request will be likely to be filled, or how fast.
Couple points. Using objects to replace rulers is very annoying. What you are doing is actually building an ad-hoc ruler *inside* your drawing. Now your box used to set spacing is interfering with your design, you have to check its fill, colors and linewidth (which scale), mess with its ordering, etc. It will mess with your object selection all the time, and you must move it somewhere just to see your drawing. And on top of that, each time you want to set a dimension the units get reset to %, so you first have to select the right units in a combobox. Each Time.
In Corel, adding a vertical ruler 5cm to he right of a cusp means drag the ruler (it will snap) / add a guideline and doubleclick it / enter 5 in a textbox. Ready, you have a guideline where you wanted it, no extra thrash on your drawing. You have a part of your drawing you want to work on with more detail? Draw a box around it, snap the ruler, and you have a mini page.
And I'm not talking CAD level stuff. It's basic graphic design work. It's not about being super precise, is about having a method to easily layout and place objects.
In Corel, adding a vertical ruler 5cm to he right of a cusp means drag the ruler (it will snap) / add a guideline and doubleclick it / enter 5 in a textbox. Ready, you have a guideline where you wanted it, no extra thrash on your drawing.
In that case, I'd snap the second object to the first, and would then enter +50 into the X position field when using the selection tool (if the units are mm).
@xopxe , double-clicking a guide in Inkscape spawns a dialog to enter guide position (relative/absolute), color, label, and angle. Also supported are choice of units and expressions.
Yes, I had missed that guidelines had its own move dialog.
As it comes, Inkscape is actually the most CAD-like of both, because Corel allows you to drag a guideline/object "about 5cm" without typing, or quickly check approximate dimensions of a region.
I think it goes down that in Corel you end using the ruler all the time, because you can place them on the bit of the drawing you are working on. For example, if you are designing a poster for a congress or something and placing logos, you would have the ruler on the region where logos go so you can have a reference on logo's sizes and spacing; then while working on the title you would place the ruler on the title and work there, and so on. Menanwhile, in Inkscape where the rulers are fixed to the page I have no use for them at all, they could be not there that I would not miss anything.
Ok, that gives me a little better idea how you are using the Corel rulers.
In Inkscape, I'm either creating with precision using numeric entry and viewing the size in the controls bar, or I'm creating objects by eye on relation to other objects.
If Inkscape had rulers I could move around, would I use them? Not sure, really. .
Another bit of info. In Inkscape, rulers and guides and grids, visually, are not precise. There are times when you can place for example, a node or a vertical or horizontal line, where you expect it should appear precisely on a guide or grid line or grid intersection, but it looks like it's not precisely on the line. So while you can draw precisely with Inkscape, and the coordinate values or angles or whatever, that you enter, make the drawing precise, the rulers or grid or guidelines are not necessarily visually precise. Sometimes they look right on, sometimes they don't. Also, note that zooming in and out can make it worse.
I have not seen movable rulers ever requested for Inkscape, although you're perfectly welcome to request it. But this might be a reason why they haven't been made. Because visually, they are just helpers. The precision comes when you enter values in the various appropriate places (or sometimes with snapping).
I don't know how it works with Corel.
Perhaps with this info, it makes more sense to you why Inkscape users don't depend on the rulers as much as apparently Corel users do? Personally, the only time I use rulers is when I've accidentally panned or scrolled far away from the drawing. I use the rulers to find the 0,0 origin, and then the drawing will be nearby.
(Lately I've been wishing I did know how Corel works, because I would write a tutorial for former Corel users switching to Inkscape.)
I've seen that impresission on the guidelines before, but allways thought it had something to do with lineweidths. Will pay more attention. (BTW, is there a way so linewidths do not get scaled when resizing objects?)
It seems to me Inkscape is of two minds. On one hand, it works pretty well in freehand, no requirments drawing. I enjoy using the brush strokes thing with a tablet. On the other hand, you are supposed to enter coordinates typing them, as if it was AutoCAD. And there is nothing in the middle. I think the moving ruler is what bridges the gap, and what made Corel a more smooth experience for me.
I'm not sure what purpose Inkscape's fixed ruler serves, at all. When I get lost in the drawing I just hit "4" or "5", no need for the ruler even for that.
Re the moving rulers. I think someone mentioned it earlier, but just in case, the Measurements tool . It has a lot of different settings, so it can probably be configured to something you can use. The only tutorial I know about it is this http://fullcirclemagazine.org/issue-121/ Find the chapter on Inkscape.
(Lately I've been wishing I did know how Corel works, because I would write a tutorial for former Corel users switching to Inkscape.)
FWIW, Corel does offer a free trial. I don't know what's included, or how long it lasts or what the limitations are but if you are serious about seeing / learning what the attraction / benefits of moving rulers is all about, it might be an option.
Unfortunately, I don't have time to learn how to use Corel, even with a free trial. I doubt if a free trial would give me enough experience to be able to write such a tutorial anyway. It would need to be someone who either is already familiar with it, or wants to spend quite a lot of time learning it. Because there must be more than just moving rulers that are different. Actually, it sounds like you and xopxe might be on your way to knowing both programs well enough to write such a tutorial.
I don't think you would be satisfied with moving rulers in Inkscape, given the poor precision. Well, not unless your work does not need precision. I certainly would not use them, if Inkscape had them, any more than I currently use the rulers. I really think the Measurement tool is meant to provide the similar functionality. Or possibly guides could be used, depending.
Beginners' Questions two crossing grid lines, intersection set to zero?
Inkscape.org
If you open a new document the left hand corner is set to zero. If you place two grid lines on the document how do you make the intersection of those grid lines zero? So that all measurements begin at the intersection?
By grid lines do you mean guides? If so, you can double click them to set their coordinates directly.
Yes, the kind of lines that you drag from the rulers. In CorelDraw, you could drag the upper left-hand corner of the rulers and reset the rulers to zero wherever you stopped dragging. Maybe I'm not making that real clear but just setting the coordinates seems a bit wonky...at least at first glance.
I think I understand what you're asking. And no, it is not possible to reset the coordinate system to Guide lines (or grid lines either), in Inkscape. You can set the Guides to the coordinate system, but you can't change the coordinate system to match the guides (or to match anything else).
Changing the page size will reset the coordinate system to the new page size. That's the only way I know to change the coordinate system.
Mmmmh.... It seems like I might have seen an extension, or something....LPE maybe, that will draw a number line, a simple coordinate system. But if there is something like that, it's actual nodes and paths, part of the drawing, rather than the actual coordinate system.
I think I heard that in the next new version 1.0, it will be possible to set the 0,0 origin in the top-left corner, rather than bottom-left. And also I think there's a feature where you can rotate the canvas. But that's getting away from your original question now. I just thought I'd mention those things.
If guides around the page are desired, use Menu:Edit>Create Guides Around the Page.
If viewing the negative values of the rulers is desired, simply scroll the view up/down, left/right.
To reset the origin relative to the objects in the drawing, draw a rectangle the desired page size with the lower-left corner positioned where the origin is desired and use menu: Edit>Resize Page to Selection. Delete the rectangle when done.
Have a nice day.
TD
Not quite following...not sure I'm being clear:
In the first pic, I have dragged (drug?) aguidelines from the horizontal as well as the vertcal rulers. The origins are at the corners of the page and the guidelinbes intersect at 2"x2'" from the origins (and the corner of the page).
The second pic shows the upper lefthand corner...where the rulers come together...and the arrow 'fan' which can be draaged onto the workspace resetting the origins of the guidelines.
The third pic shows that process--the red arrow and red guidelines meant to illustrate the dragging the origins--with the origins already reset at 1"x1" from the corner of the page.
Sorry not sure how to get rid of that surplus white space above my pics, above. Did't see any ability to place the attachments inline.
Guide lines in Inkscape have an anchor point, and you can change the anchor point. You can change it manually, by dragging it wherever you want. Or you can set it precisely. Double-click on the guide to open a small dialog, and you will see where you can change the x and y for the anchor point.
The coordinates for the guide and its anchor point are the same coordinates as the rest of the document. It's not a different or separate system.
If you could explain a little more what you're trying to accomplish by resetting the guide origins, we might be able to explain better?
Edit
The extra white space is a known bug with the forum. There is no inline ability (although I wish there were).
The ability not to know when someone posts a new message while you're typing is a missing but requested feature.
Well let's say I draw...oh, something simple like a circle....and I want to set it at a certain coordinate on the page, verically and horizontally, doesn't have to be relative to the edge of the pade. I can pull a horizontal guideline and a vertical guideline, and I could pull in anotherof each to 'box' the circle. Now let's say I draw a star, smaller than the circle. And I want to put it centrally aligned with the circle and at a certain distance away from the circle.And then I want to add another figure (not a circle or a star) of yet another size. Guidelines make that easier.
Or say I want to make a couple of letters of text into vector outlines, distort (skew, stretch,etc.) individual shapes and then re-space (kern?) them and re-colour or add a fill. I could know exactly on the page where each letter starts and how far apart the center of each oject was from the previous and from the subsequent.
Maybe I'm making my objectives less clear or maybe there's and easier way? But with guidelines functioning the way I outlined in the illustrations above it's pretty simple and straightforward...and useful.
And, really (and the reason I'm asking) it's what I'm used to--all I know.
I guess I want to think that the workspace isn't, or shouldn't be, defined by the page but by the entire visible (even non-visible) screen real estate, so coordinates and origins shouldn't be anchored to the page.
(I guess spell check doesn't work on this forum either? Just so I know)
Have you found the Align and Distribute dialog yet? Object > Align and distribute.
Yes, Inkscape works a bit differently. Concrete examples will help us to help you. Post an SVG file, and post what you want the result to look like. Then we can show you how to do that.
I'm not sure if I understand. But this sounds like a situation where you could maybe use relative guides. Double-click on a guide to open the little dialog box. There you can choose relative spacing for the guides. So the guides can be moved relative to each other rather than according to the doc's coordinates. It's not a feature I use, but I've heard of others using it quite a lot.
Or else, sometimes people us spacer objects. So maybe they would make a rectangle with the proper size for the space they need. Then snap the rectangle, or duplicate to the object. And then snap the next object to that.
(Also not a big user of spell check. I sure don't see anything in message editor about spell check. It could be requested though. Maybe already has been requested?)
Coordinates are locked to the page in Inkscape. The origin is in the lower-left corner (This location may be user selectable in the next version).
Precise positioning of guides can be achieved by double-clicking on a guide and entering numeric values.
Precise positioning of objects can be achieved by numeric entry in the Transforms panel or by snapping to precisely placed guides.
Have a nice day.
TD
Thanks for all the input...
I was afraid you would say something like that. I don't have any problem with coordinates being locked to the page...that makes sense, to me. But guidelines are, by nature, moveable, so maybe they need to be a abit more 'flexible'.
May be lots of ways to skin the cat (that's good) but IMO not all are easy and intuitive.
I'm not sure the Inkscape workflow is any less intuitive... the only difference I see is the canvas origin being locked to the page origin.
Guides can be manually dragged and snapped to specific locations, or placed with precision using absolute or relative coordinates. The same goes for objects.
Best analogy might be the operation of different cars: they all have the same essential controls, but the controls might be in a different place or look different. (Once you are familiar with different cars, you have a better ability to adapt to unfamiliar ones.)
I do a fair amount of precise fabrication work with Inkscape, and skip the CAD stage of the proccess by using guides, the transforms panel, the alignment panel and snapping.
TD
i totaly get what you were aiming for DWFII, i do a lot of logo design and like ot mesure of a center point, so i alsowas start with a central shape and centerlines and resetting the Zero points. i came here to ask a similar thing and sadly found this thread
Are you (DWFII and Rivka) saying that other programs allow more than one coordinate system in the file? One that's only associated with guide lines, and one for the whole file?
You could always start your drawing at Inkscape's 0,0. Or reset the 0,0 relative to your drawing. But you could not make another 0,0 somewhere else in the file.
If it seems to be useful, and do-able, maybe you would want to make a feature request for Inkscape? Personally, I'm still not entirely understanding what you're describing. I think the relative guides in Inkscape probably do what you want, but I'm still not totally clear what you're asking.
If you decide to make a feature request, you can't just say - make something like this other program does it. You would have to completely describe it....or find someone who can. https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inbox/issues
I don't know how to describe it any other way. But if you look at the screen caps i posted above you can see that the intersection of the blue guidelines is zero. Let's say I put the intersection right smack dab in the center of my 'paper'. Now I can create objects...or as mentioned, 'de-textified' text a very specific measurement in either direction or all four directions.
Maybe I'm just used to a different paradigm but It seems so intuitive to me, I can't imagine any other way being anything but awkward and time consuming.
I have nothing but the utmost admiration for Inkscape and Gimp and Paint.net and LibreOffice. And I have not dismissed any of these programs--I have them on my computer and use them occasionally. Occasionally. I would like nothing better than to shed those expensive programs (such as CorelDraw, etc.). But frankly, and I mean no disrespect...Inkscape seems to be chock-a-block full of conventions that exist for no good reason except to defy convention. The issue with text that I raised in a different thread here is another one of those. Who would have guessed that you would have to convert text to curves (put on a path) before you could ungroup it...and even then, even now...I can't figure a way to put it on a path. I select with the select tool and click on Text > Put on path and nothing happens.I select Ungroup, nothing happens. I select Pop Selected Objects out of Group and nothing happens.
It shouldn't be that hard. Although in all fairness, I haven't taken the tutorials ...just hoped that years of working with CorelDraw and the similarity of the icons representing the tools combined with the similarity of stated goals and purposes would stand me in good stead and allow me to explore the interface and get up to speed relatively quickly. Doesn't look likely at this point, though.
Just a different perspective, I suppose.
So when you reset the guidelines intersection, it resets the rulers?
You could reset the rulers in Inkscape, by fitting the page borders to the drawing. Select the drawing, then Document Properties > Page tab > Page Size > Custom Size > Resize Page to Contents.
You don't need guides to do that. If you make a 2nd object on the page, and you want to reset it again, you need to repeat that, with the 2nd object selected. However, the coordinates from the first object will now be changed.
Or, you could start drawing in the bottom-left corner, where 0,0 is already.
But I think you're right. It's hard to expect that different programs are going to work the same way. And feature request is still possible, although it's no guarantee it would actually happen...unless you happen to have the right coding skills yourself 😉
It sounds like there's an interesting feture burried in the convention somewhere. I am interested in understanding it, but I can't yet see it.
Is this similar to the multi-page support item, where different pages have different effective origins?
For your text-along-a-path question: https://inkscape-manuals.readthedocs.io/en/latest/putting-text-on-path.html
I doubt seriously that Inkscape developers research all kinds of other vectors programs, to see how they work, and on purpose make Inkscape differently. I think they probably have an idea how to do something, which follows Inkscape's stated mission (being true to SVG standards, as far as I understand) and they just make it happen.
I'd be interested to follow your discussion with Martin, if you decide to reply to him.
Martin, I didn't see where multi-pages have anything to do with it. From what I can tell, it's a way to reset coordinates to a guide intersection, regardless of page borders. That would mean that parts of the page has negative coordinates, so maybe that's part of why Inkscape doesn't do it. But that's a pretty wild guess on my part.
You are correct.
I tried it in Corel at my office and while it works as described, I don't see the great value.
If I want to place a guide or object in a precise location, I just type in the values. In Corel, the numeric entry boxes are at the top of the work area, in Inkscape, I double click on a guide or Ctrl+Shift+M for the transforms dialog. (I don't keep it docked.)
Forget about placing guides easily in Affinity... Guides manager?. ::rolls eyes:: Guides on an angle? Pfffft. nada.
Have a nice day.
TD
Well, I disagree with you there. In fact, I'd be very surprised if they had not looked...extensively...at other graphics programs. After all, Inkscape wasn't the first by any means. Just the interest, the curiousity, the desire to put together a piece of software that will do what Adobe Illustrator or CorelDraw or Inkscape will do, had to come from somewhere. Haven't you, yourself, ever looked at any of the alternatives? That's what I'm doing / have done. That's what Rivka is doing. Looking at alternatives. And we're just users.
I'm not a coder. I'm not even an expert with CorelDraw or any drawing program. I just know what feels 'right' to me. So, I'm probably not the best person to explain or articulate either the pros or the cons..
That said, even though I'm missing any real ability to speak to these issues, in my mind the page is almost beside the point and should not really be the focus. Ever, IMO. After all, it is somewhat arbitrary by definition. It can be, presumably, almost any size. In point of fact, you don't realy even need to define it. Nor...and perhaps more to the point...confine your work to the page. Many times...maybe most of the time...when I create a drawing, I select it and move it somewhere else. I might even generate the object off the page--in the larger workspace--and then move it to the page or even to another document. That's what the larger workspace is for, in my opinion. Sometimes I create an object and save it to a transparent .png to post on a forum.
When you think of things working that way, it almost makes no sense to anchor the guideline origins to the page. Doing so makes the page the focus, instead of the object you're creating.
Just my opinion...YMMV
And PS...while I haven't used guidelines at an angle very often, when I have, I was glad to have them.
PSS...just to reiterate--I have no legitimate standing to be critisizing Inkscape (or any of the alternatives) nor to debate these points with any of you. Only reason I pursued it was because Brynn invited me to do so.
Maybe this is simply a lack of familiarity, or set of particular expectations.
e.g. Cartographers expect 0 degrees to be at 12 o'clock, engineers at 3 o'clock (Already selectable in Inkscape preferences). Engineering and scientific professions expect the orgin to be in the lower left, print and web expect it upper left (soon to be selectable in Inkscape).
Features like arbitrarily moving the origin are a means to end, I'm not convinced that there aren't just as useful features to achieve the same ends in Inkscape, like Object-to-guides. I don't see why resetting the origin can't be a part of Inkscape either, but in 15 years, there have ony been a few requests for it.
So, if the question is: "How do I achieve this end in Inkscape?", the answers may offer a variety choices that are relatable to users coming from Corel/Affinity/Illustrator/Freehand/Pagemaker/Publisher/Scribus/SK1/AutoCad/Flash/Inventor/Solidworks/Sketchup/Blender/Draftsight/LibreCad/etc, etc, etc. So... which convention again?
OTOH, Inkscape is not for everybody.... and there is plenty of good software worth paying for.
Have a nice day.
TD
This is why Inkscape has "Resize page to drawing or selection" (with margins, if desired). I rarely consider the page, unless I'm formatting for electronic display or print. I make the whole drawing or selected bits the page when I'm done.
You can hide the page boundaries & shadow. Put a rectangle surrounding the origin and make it a group (poor-man's artboard). Enter the group and design as you would in Corel... sort of. Worth experimenting with. Output depends on destination.
Have a nice day.
TD
In fact, Inkscape's goal is not to be like other software. I always like to say that Inkscape has its own goals and aspirations, and being like Illustrator or any other software is not one of them. You might be interested to read this section of the FAQ: https://inkscape.org/learn/faq/#inkscape-and-other-programs Or maybe some developer would like to comment about Inkscape's mission?
As far as I understand Inkscape's mission, it's to be a vector editor which complies most strictly to the SVG standards. That's why SVG is the native format, I guess. Inkscape really could care less how Illustrator or any other software works. I'm sure some developers are aware of other software, but that's not what motivates them to develop Inkscape.
In fact, I have not looked at any of the alternatives. For my purposes as a very simple hobbyist, I'm totally happy with Inkscape! Although I think there are a couple of free vector softwares, I'm happy with Inkscape, and don't care to have to learn some other program. (fyi, I'm not a developer, I'm just a humble user)
My view is that Inkscape is a vector graphics drawing program, not a CAD program - even though there's a little overlap. Its tools are generally oriented around creating artistic results using vectors, rather than providing a toolset that is oriented around precise angles and lengths. For example, the trivial task of creating a line of a specific length and angle in a CAD program requires several steps in Inkscape.
User coordinate systems (which is what we're talking about here) fall somewhere between the two camps. They're useful in CAD and cartography work: it makes a lot of sense to be able to set an arbitrary datum in an engineering drawing, or include different views of a map at different scales, all within a single document. The SVG spec allows for this, by allowing nested <svg> elements each with their own viewBox, but Inkscape doesn't really support this. It would be a nice addition, but probably not a trivial one to implement.
As a former CoreDRAW user, this is one of the most frustrating parts in Inkscape. Using the ruler is very agile when working with measurements, and all the alternatives in Inkscape are incredibly cumbersome.
That's the whole point of a ruler, you can move it around your work and measur things. Inkscape has not the equivalent of a ruler at all.
xopxe - have you seen the measure tool?
Well said. I would love to use, and like, Inkscape but sad to say (and entirely on me) I can't get around that lack.
Maren, when I looked into it the measurement tool could only be used on existing drawings. You could not use it as a reference to place new objects, for example.
I see. It's possible to measure on a blank canvas, though. You can convert the measurement to an object (button with the hover text 'convert to item'), as a temporary workaround.
You can also convert the measurement to guides, change its scaling, or the unit.
It's not the same as being able to set the length of the measurement, but maybe that could be implemented.
Do you know how to make a feature request?
The inkscape workflow, very generally is, draw something first, then set it's size and style and everything. Inkscape is not set up to draw something at a specific size, from the get-go. Well, not without first setting up some way to do that, like using grids or guides, along with snapping.
I think this is the point which others have been trying to make. Inkscape is not meant to be a substitute for, or free version of any other program. While it's possible with Inkscape to draw something very, very precisely, such as with a CAD program, it's not trying to be a CAD program. If it were, your complaint would be very valid.
How to make a feature request explained in this message: https://inkscape.org/forums/beyond/how-to-report-bugs-or-request-new-features/
Edit
Although you might want to chat with developers about how Inkscape is being developed. It might inform your feature request, or give you some idea whether your request will be likely to be filled, or how fast.
Couple points. Using objects to replace rulers is very annoying. What you are doing is actually building an ad-hoc ruler *inside* your drawing. Now your box used to set spacing is interfering with your design, you have to check its fill, colors and linewidth (which scale), mess with its ordering, etc. It will mess with your object selection all the time, and you must move it somewhere just to see your drawing. And on top of that, each time you want to set a dimension the units get reset to %, so you first have to select the right units in a combobox. Each Time.
In Corel, adding a vertical ruler 5cm to he right of a cusp means drag the ruler (it will snap) / add a guideline and doubleclick it / enter 5 in a textbox. Ready, you have a guideline where you wanted it, no extra thrash on your drawing. You have a part of your drawing you want to work on with more detail? Draw a box around it, snap the ruler, and you have a mini page.
And I'm not talking CAD level stuff. It's basic graphic design work. It's not about being super precise, is about having a method to easily layout and place objects.
Oh, and thanks for the link
Same in Inkscape.
Really? How you place an object 5cm to the right of another object?
In that case, I'd snap the second object to the first, and would then enter +50 into the X position field when using the selection tool (if the units are mm).
(the guides version would also work, but would take longer for this specific case)
@xopxe , double-clicking a guide in Inkscape spawns a dialog to enter guide position (relative/absolute), color, label, and angle. Also supported are choice of units and expressions.
So, much like Corel, plus angle.
TD
Yes, I had missed that guidelines had its own move dialog.
As it comes, Inkscape is actually the most CAD-like of both, because Corel allows you to drag a guideline/object "about 5cm" without typing, or quickly check approximate dimensions of a region.
I think it goes down that in Corel you end using the ruler all the time, because you can place them on the bit of the drawing you are working on. For example, if you are designing a poster for a congress or something and placing logos, you would have the ruler on the region where logos go so you can have a reference on logo's sizes and spacing; then while working on the title you would place the ruler on the title and work there, and so on. Menanwhile, in Inkscape where the rulers are fixed to the page I have no use for them at all, they could be not there that I would not miss anything.
Ok, that gives me a little better idea how you are using the Corel rulers.
In Inkscape, I'm either creating with precision using numeric entry and viewing the size in the controls bar, or I'm creating objects by eye on relation to other objects.
If Inkscape had rulers I could move around, would I use them? Not sure, really. .
TD
Another bit of info. In Inkscape, rulers and guides and grids, visually, are not precise. There are times when you can place for example, a node or a vertical or horizontal line, where you expect it should appear precisely on a guide or grid line or grid intersection, but it looks like it's not precisely on the line. So while you can draw precisely with Inkscape, and the coordinate values or angles or whatever, that you enter, make the drawing precise, the rulers or grid or guidelines are not necessarily visually precise. Sometimes they look right on, sometimes they don't. Also, note that zooming in and out can make it worse.
I have not seen movable rulers ever requested for Inkscape, although you're perfectly welcome to request it. But this might be a reason why they haven't been made. Because visually, they are just helpers. The precision comes when you enter values in the various appropriate places (or sometimes with snapping).
I don't know how it works with Corel.
Perhaps with this info, it makes more sense to you why Inkscape users don't depend on the rulers as much as apparently Corel users do? Personally, the only time I use rulers is when I've accidentally panned or scrolled far away from the drawing. I use the rulers to find the 0,0 origin, and then the drawing will be nearby.
(Lately I've been wishing I did know how Corel works, because I would write a tutorial for former Corel users switching to Inkscape.)
👍Now there's an idea...🍺
I've seen that impresission on the guidelines before, but allways thought it had something to do with lineweidths. Will pay more attention. (BTW, is there a way so linewidths do not get scaled when resizing objects?)
It seems to me Inkscape is of two minds. On one hand, it works pretty well in freehand, no requirments drawing. I enjoy using the brush strokes thing with a tablet. On the other hand, you are supposed to enter coordinates typing them, as if it was AutoCAD. And there is nothing in the middle. I think the moving ruler is what bridges the gap, and what made Corel a more smooth experience for me.
I'm not sure what purpose Inkscape's fixed ruler serves, at all. When I get lost in the drawing I just hit "4" or "5", no need for the ruler even for that.
Yes, 3,4,5 are also my go-to buttons for quick orientation and review.
To scale objects and retain original strokewidth, disable the first button in the group of four in the Select-Tool controls.
TD
Thanks for the tip.
Re the moving rulers. I think someone mentioned it earlier, but just in case, the Measurements tool
. It has a lot of different settings, so it can probably be configured to something you can use. The only tutorial I know about it is this http://fullcirclemagazine.org/issue-121/ Find the chapter on Inkscape.
That's the 61st in a series of...must be close to 100 by now! Here's the index: http://www.peppertop.com/blog/?p=1563
I guess some people just don't know when to stop ;)
I think you meant to post a different URL for the index. Here's the thread where I've put the link to the index in the first post, and will continue to add to the thread when new instalments are released: https://inkscape.org/forums/tutorials/inkscape-tutorials-in-full-circle-magazine/
FWIW, Corel does offer a free trial. I don't know what's included, or how long it lasts or what the limitations are but if you are serious about seeing / learning what the attraction / benefits of moving rulers is all about, it might be an option.
Oh sorry, I pasted the same link twice. I just fixed it.
Unfortunately, I don't have time to learn how to use Corel, even with a free trial. I doubt if a free trial would give me enough experience to be able to write such a tutorial anyway. It would need to be someone who either is already familiar with it, or wants to spend quite a lot of time learning it. Because there must be more than just moving rulers that are different. Actually, it sounds like you and xopxe might be on your way to knowing both programs well enough to write such a tutorial.
I don't think you would be satisfied with moving rulers in Inkscape, given the poor precision. Well, not unless your work does not need precision. I certainly would not use them, if Inkscape had them, any more than I currently use the rulers. I really think the Measurement tool is meant to provide the similar functionality. Or possibly guides could be used, depending.