1. (12:04:13 PM) bryce: == Start of Meeting 2016-01-08 ==
  2. (12:04:16 PM) bryce: hi all
  3. (12:04:38 PM) tweenk: hello from Mountain View
  4. (12:04:49 PM) valavanisalex: Hi everyone
  5. (12:05:04 PM) bryce: how's the new job so far tweenk ? :-)
  6. (12:06:03 PM) tweenk: so far so good, I work on 3D graphics related stuff which is something I always wanted to do
  7. (12:06:33 PM) valavanisalex: Ace... so you can fix the 3D Box tool then? ;-)
  8. (12:06:45 PM) tweenk: maybe ;)
  9. (12:06:58 PM) tweenk: that could be a good hackfest item
  10. (12:07:14 PM) bryce: == Agenda ==
  11. (12:07:19 PM) bryce: For January 8th
  12. (12:07:19 PM) bryce: Code of Conduct (final review)
  13. (12:07:19 PM) bryce: Budget 2016 [bryce]
  14. (12:07:19 PM) bryce: Sponsorship levels [kk]
  15. (12:07:19 PM) bryce: Hackfest 2016: Leeds [alex]
  16. (12:07:21 PM) bryce: Funded development [bryce]
  17. (12:07:23 PM) bryce: GSoC 2016 [scislac]
  18. (12:07:25 PM) bryce: Other Business
  19. (12:07:35 PM) bryce:
  20. (12:07:57 PM) bryce: is Martin here? Not seeing a doctormo
  21. (12:08:10 PM) bryce: == Code of Conduct ==
  22. (12:08:33 PM) bryce: guessing we don't have the right people here to discuss this?
  23. (12:08:51 PM) FailBit: that's hella paste
  24. (12:08:59 PM) tweenk: I am satisfied with the CoC as it is now
  25. (12:09:45 PM) bryce: I think all action items are closed on it, I think we're all pretty happy with it
  26. (12:10:21 PM) bryce: for now I think we can go ahead and close it, and if there's any follow up to do it can re-ping us.
  27. (12:10:24 PM) valavanisalex: I don't know how long these meetings normally last... I'll need to leave in 35 mins. Not trying to jump the queue, but maybe bear that in mind for the Hackfest discussion! :)
  28. (12:10:25 PM) bryce:
  29. (12:10:49 PM) tweenk: the only request I have is that we should amend the reporting section once we have a dedicated e-mail, e.g. abuse@inkscape.org
  30. (12:10:49 PM) bryce: valavanisalex, yep good point, we should bump up your items
  31. (12:11:11 PM) bryce: == Leeds Hackfest ==
  32. (12:11:17 PM) bryce: valavanisalex, you've got the floor :-)
  33. (12:11:29 PM) valavanisalex: Haha, success!
  34. (12:11:39 PM) valavanisalex: Right... has anyone read the draft proposal yet?
  35. (12:11:50 PM) Tavmjong: I couldn't access it...
  36. (12:11:58 PM) tweenk: I had a look, seems decently fleshed out
  37. (12:12:09 PM) valavanisalex: Oh... Tavmjong I approved the request you sent from your gmail acct
  38. (12:12:38 PM) Tavmjong: I'll try again.
  39. (12:12:41 PM) ScislaC: Hello
  40. (12:12:52 PM) valavanisalex: Hi!
  41. (12:13:41 PM) valavanisalex: So, re Leeds Hackfest: The general gist is that we have a free venue for ~15 delegates
  42. (12:13:51 PM) tweenk: I think we could specify in advance what we should work on at the hackfest, at least roughly
  43. (12:14:02 PM) Tavmjong: tweenk: +1
  44. (12:14:05 PM) valavanisalex: [pending final approval by our sponsors, The Test People (TPP)]
  45. (12:14:35 PM) valavanisalex: +1 I put a placeholder "theme" in the proposal
  46. (12:15:04 PM) bryce: valavanisalex, proposal looks really well thought out to me.
  47. (12:15:22 PM) valavanisalex: Seeing as we'll be hosted by a company that provides Testing solutions, I think it would make sense to focus some of our activities around that
  48. (12:15:35 PM) bryce: 15 seems like a reasonable max size
  49. (12:16:21 PM) Tavmjong: The one thing I would like to see tackled is the GTK3 rendering bug.
  50. (12:16:22 PM) valavanisalex: TPP would like to reserve a couple of seats for their staff... I think that's good for us too though
  51. (12:16:26 PM) tweenk: Sounds good. We could try removing the cxxtests / converting them to Google Test Framework as we agreed, and then ading some for things such as SPDocument
  52. (12:16:49 PM) valavanisalex: Yeah Tavmjong, me too. I haven't done anything further on it.
  53. (12:17:03 PM) bryce: valavanisalex, I've proposed a budget to do a dinner out, so you might give thought to a nice place to take the attendees, and set a todo to make a reservation at the appropriate time
  54. (12:17:08 PM) tweenk: valavanisalex: yeah, that's high priority. I can work on that, since I know the surrounding code.
  55. (12:17:50 PM) valavanisalex: Docs/microtests for our rendering code would seem like a nice fit with the theme too
  56. (12:18:14 PM) FailBit: Tavmjong: ew canvas code
  57. (12:18:38 PM) bryce: you guys might want to think about any tutorials that might be worth having. Seems like those were well enjoyed last time around
  58. (12:18:40 PM) tweenk: valavanisalex: We have the rendering test suite. I'd like to see better integration
  59. (12:18:49 PM) valavanisalex: bryce, that's fine. There are a lot of places to eat. Give me an idea for the budget/numbers when it's fixed and I can easily book.
  60. (12:18:52 PM) Tavmjong: sustainability in testing...
  61. (12:18:58 PM) FailBit: I have no idea how tweenk even managed to make it work during the cairo render stuff
  62. (12:19:01 PM) tweenk: valavanisalex: basically you say "make rendertest" and it downloads and runs the tests
  63. (12:19:07 PM) bryce: valavanisalex, I had proposed $600 for it
  64. (12:19:31 PM) valavanisalex: tweenk, sure, although those are full integrated tests, right? Some microtests for the individual chunks of the render code would be nice
  65. (12:19:41 PM) tweenk: valavanisalex: yes
  66. (12:19:44 PM) bryce: valavanisalex, it came in at $400 last hackfest so I boosted 50% assuming 50% more attendees
  67. (12:20:09 PM) tweenk: FailBit: the canvas code is rather convoluted and has a lot of legacy stuff around it but it's actually pretty well designed
  68. (12:20:33 PM) valavanisalex: bryce, OK, that's great. We don't tip as much in the UK either ;-) should give us plenty of leeway on budget
  69. (12:20:36 PM) bryce: valavanisalex, are there any other decisions the board could make, or next step action items that'd help you move things forward?
  70. (12:20:39 PM) tweenk: FailBit: the part I already refactored (DrawingItem etc) had really smart ideas in it
  71. (12:20:44 PM) FailBit: indeed
  72. (12:20:57 PM) FailBit: I noticed that there was a lot of commented out code around the entrance to the DrawingItem render code, tweenk
  73. (12:21:31 PM) tweenk: FailBit: Hmm, I don't have a checkout handy right now to see
  74. (12:21:45 PM) FailBit: let me dig it out
  75. (12:21:47 PM) valavanisalex: are we happy for me to communicate the sponsor package to TPP as proposed? Or do we want to have a breakdown of the notional value of the sponsorship first?
  76. (12:22:06 PM) tweenk: FailBit: an LP code browser link would do
  77. (12:22:16 PM) FailBit: tweenk: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~inkscape.dev/inkscape/trunk/view/head:/src/display/sp-canvas.cpp#L1689
  78. (12:22:46 PM) tweenk: valavanisalex: I think the splash screen idea is high value, while other things can be shared as is
  79. (12:23:00 PM) bryce: what was the sponsor package again?
  80. (12:23:06 PM) valavanisalex: Essentially, they're providing a meeting room for up to 4 days (office hours) + a couple of hours consultancy on testing
  81. (12:23:17 PM) tweenk: about screen logo, IRC topics, website announcement, forum announcement
  82. (12:23:36 PM) tweenk: and if we get a splash screen, a splash screen logo
  83. (12:23:44 PM) valavanisalex: Peter @ TPP can ask their accounts people to provide a notional value for the package they're providing
  84. (12:23:48 PM) bryce: ah right. That all seems reasonable
  85. (12:23:49 PM) valavanisalex: *TTP
  86. (12:24:03 PM) tweenk: I proposed adding a splash screen specifically to be able to feature sponsors prominently
  87. (12:24:11 PM) bryce: we also have twitter and facebook feeds that could be tapped fwiw
  88. (12:24:17 PM) Tavmjong: valavanisalex: I think we can be flexible in the sponsor package. This is our first time so getting feedback from TTP would be good.
  89. (12:24:24 PM) tweenk: right, that's another no-brainer
  90. (12:25:01 PM) Tavmjong: bryce, speaking of twitter and facebook... who holds the keys? They are not used much (our G+ account has a much bigger following)
  91. (12:25:36 PM) valavanisalex: OK, so are you happy for me to tell TTP we'll do the full package (inc. splash)? Or shall I just mention the non-splash bits?
  92. (12:25:39 PM) bryce: Tavmjong, they're in our credentials escrow, so anyone with their gpg key registered can access them
  93. (12:26:37 PM) bryce: Tavmjong, and I'd encourage ALL board members / administrators to get their gpg account registered. Email me off list and I can walk people through it. bryce@bryceharrington.org
  94. (12:26:56 PM) bryce: Tavmjong, I believe ScislaC has posted to twitter in the past.
  95. (12:27:12 PM) tweenk: valavanisalex: I think that's what we should agree on here
  96. (12:27:22 PM) bryce: facebook is actually used *quite* heavily by the userbase to share drawings, and I believe anyone can post to it
  97. (12:28:02 PM) bryce: tweenk, valavanisalex would an official vote on that be helpful?
  98. (12:28:26 PM) bryce: I've queued up a few things we need to vote on, I can add the sponsor package to the list.
  99. (12:28:30 PM) valavanisalex: Yeah, I guess so given that it's effectively of financial value
  100. (12:28:39 PM) tweenk: Yeah I guess so. We can have a vote on whether the splash screen should be part of the sponsorship package. The risk is that it's a new feature.
  101. (12:28:58 PM) Tavmjong: If I go to https://www.facebook.com/Inkscape.org the last post was July 12, 2015
  102. (12:29:16 PM) Tavmjong: I don't think we should offer the splash screen until it is functional.
  103. (12:29:57 PM) tweenk: Or we could try adding it at the hackfest
  104. (12:30:27 PM) ***tedg is late, sorry
  105. (12:30:32 PM) valavanisalex: Also for Hackfest, are we happy with the dates and duration? (i.e., making it a 4-day event, 11-14 April 2016?)
  106. (12:30:41 PM) Mc-: (i don't think we should offer any sponsor space on a splash screen)
  107. (12:30:53 PM) ScislaC: Tavmjong: https://www.facebook.com/groups/inkscape.org/ is likely the one Bryce was referencing
  108. (12:31:14 PM) tweenk: valavanisalex: I'm OK with that
  109. (12:31:42 PM) Mc-: (if ther is to be sponsor space, imho it should be either in a help->sponsors page, or in a tab in help->about inkscape)
  110. (12:31:51 PM) valavanisalex: i.e., can I confirm the final dates with TTP and get a formal booking reservation?
  111. (12:31:53 PM) Mc-: (and preferably the latter)
  112. (12:31:59 PM) Tavmjong: ScislaC: looks like that requires logging into Facebook... I've never joined.
  113. (12:32:00 PM) bryce: Tavmjong, ah there is also https://www.facebook.com/groups/inkscape.org/
  114. (12:32:02 PM) tweenk: Mc-: that's far less visible
  115. (12:32:09 PM) bryce: Tavmjong, in any case I think I'm admin on both.
  116. (12:32:29 PM) Mc-: the point is to thank sponsors, not make a big ads board, right ?
  117. (12:32:41 PM) bryce: Mc-, yep
  118. (12:32:51 PM) tedg: I'd be -1 on splash screen, but I like the Help → Sponsors idea.
  119. (12:33:22 PM) Tavmjong: valavanisalex: Dates and duration look good to me.
  120. (12:33:26 PM) tedg: I like it being higher level than the about screen because it makes people realize that sponsorship is something they could do as well.
  121. (12:33:41 PM) tedg: I imagine there are designers at companies that would sponsor, no one has thought of that idea.
  122. (12:33:47 PM) bryce: ok, sounds like we've covered adequate ground on leeds. I'll take the action item on the vote for the sponsorship package.
  123. (12:34:06 PM) Mc-: (ie i'm ok to save a space for sponsors, but not obtrude it on users)
  124. (12:34:22 PM) tweenk: I think the exposure and consequentially the amount of money we can get in exchange for splash screen placement is exponentially greater than for something hidden in a menu item
  125. (12:34:30 PM) valavanisalex: Great... let me know if you want any further details on the proposal. Can follow up later.
  126. (12:34:35 PM) bryce: valavanisalex, I can also put the leeds proposal to a vote to make it formally official.
  127. (12:35:00 PM) bryce: valavanisalex, don't be shy about delegating or asking for help
  128. (12:35:05 PM) Mc-: tweenk: you think in terms of selling the space :/
  129. (12:35:27 PM) Tavmjong: Can we unofficially approve Leeds proposal now?
  130. (12:35:28 PM) valavanisalex: OK, although there are still some missing chunks. Maybe get back to me with comments on the doc first?
  131. (12:35:42 PM) bryce: Tavmjong, sure; I think we did that last month but can't hurt
  132. (12:36:00 PM) Tavmjong: +1 for Leeds proposal.
  133. (12:36:20 PM) valavanisalex: At this stage, just need to confirm dates, and then we can patch up all the internal details after
  134. (12:36:22 PM) tweenk: Mc-: not necessarily selling, but I think it's something very valuable we can trade with sponsors
  135. (12:36:26 PM) bryce: STRAW VOTE: on Leeds Apr 11-14?
  136. (12:36:31 PM) bryce: +1 for leeds proposal
  137. (12:36:38 PM) tweenk: +1 for Leeds
  138. (12:36:51 PM) Tavmjong: +1 for Leeds proposal.
  139. (12:37:25 PM) bryce: the one other item I see on the agenda from alex is C++11. valavanisalex would you like to go through that real quick in a few minutes or leave it for next month?
  140. (12:37:31 PM) tedg: +1 Leeds
  141. (12:37:36 PM) bryce: ScislaC?
  142. (12:37:51 PM) ScislaC: +1 (sorry, multitasking)
  143. (12:38:06 PM) ScislaC: (for Leeds)
  144. (12:38:27 PM) bryce: ok so informal straw vote is 6/7 board members. We'll have an official vote on list.
  145. (12:38:42 PM) valavanisalex: Sure, I guess C++11 has become a little more pressing with the recent GNOME libs dependency
  146. (12:38:52 PM) tedg: +1 for ScislaC multitasking
  147. (12:38:52 PM) bryce: ok go
  148. (12:39:00 PM) ScislaC: :P
  149. (12:39:01 PM) tweenk: nitpicking, isn't that 5/7? Jon and Martin aren't here :)
  150. (12:39:15 PM) Tavmjong: == C++11 ==
  151. (12:39:25 PM) bryce: tweenk, heh right
  152. (12:39:44 PM) valavanisalex: Although we can still handle conditional builds (i.e., C++11 required for new GNOME; else optional)
  153. (12:40:14 PM) tweenk: I'd rather require C++11 everywhere
  154. (12:40:36 PM) valavanisalex: However, my concern is that we get into slightly mirky territory if we don't firmly define the language standard for a project
  155. (12:40:43 PM) valavanisalex: +1 tweenk
  156. (12:41:07 PM) tedg: +1 C++11
  157. (12:41:12 PM) tweenk: GCC 4.8 that's in Ubuntu 14.04 LTS already has full C++11 support
  158. (12:41:13 PM) valavanisalex: The only bottleneck to a hard C++11 dep is old OSX
  159. (12:41:23 PM) tedg: tweenk: Not full, but close enough for what we ened.
  160. (12:41:24 PM) valavanisalex: AFAIK
  161. (12:41:25 PM) tedg: need
  162. (12:41:42 PM) tweenk: https://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-4.8/cxx0x_status.html
  163. (12:41:59 PM) tweenk: the only unimplemented item is N2670 which is irrelevant
  164. (12:42:25 PM) tedg: tweenk: Language features, but the stdlib was missing stuff. I remember regex specifically, but I think there were more.
  165. (12:42:35 PM) tweenk: tedg: ah, OK
  166. (12:42:51 PM) valavanisalex: Once we have a hard C++11 dep we can also tidy up handling of unordered containers
  167. (12:42:52 PM) FailBit: we don't use regex do we?
  168. (12:43:26 PM) tweenk: FailBit: we don't use C++11's version, there's probably a few places where GRegex is used
  169. (12:43:36 PM) FailBit: that's what I meant
  170. (12:43:47 PM) FailBit: also, we have t-rex included in btool, we can throw that out if we require c++11
  171. (12:44:02 PM) FailBit: and it supports <regex>
  172. (12:44:04 PM) FailBit: mind you
  173. (12:44:20 PM) Mc-: tweenk: from a quick grep, only once, in ./xml/repr-io.cpp
  174. (12:44:49 PM) tweenk: Mc-: ah, I remember that was to fix an XXE vuln
  175. (12:45:10 PM) Tavmjong: We use Glib::Regex a number of places.
  176. (12:45:16 PM) valavanisalex: Requiring a C++11 compliant compiler shouldn't cause us any issues (we already *can* build with --std=c++11)
  177. (12:46:13 PM) valavanisalex: However, a more thorny issue is giving the go-ahead for *migration* of our code to C++11 style (i.e., breaking backward compatibility)
  178. (12:46:37 PM) bryce: so a couple thoughts
  179. (12:46:47 PM) tedg: Yes, and I think that 4 years after the spec, it's conservative enough.
  180. (12:46:49 PM) valavanisalex: As soon as we start using e.g., auto pointers, range-based for loops etc, we'll break builds for old OSX etc
  181. (12:47:13 PM) FailBit: I think that's acceptable
  182. (12:47:19 PM) bryce: one is I'd sort of like to get the 0.92 release out the door before we undertake any more big changes; so may as well have one more release with the OSX backwards compat before we bid it adieu
  183. (12:47:37 PM) valavanisalex: (btw, C++11 code migration is something I'd happily work on)
  184. (12:47:56 PM) tweenk: bryce: sounds OK
  185. (12:48:03 PM) FailBit: if support for OS X 10.5 (or even 10.6) disappear then it won't be that bad
  186. (12:48:08 PM) FailBit: 10.7+, I have a problem with
  187. (12:48:21 PM) su_v: 10.9+ would be if we require c++11
  188. (12:48:25 PM) valavanisalex: bryce, agreed as long as timescale is relatively short
  189. (12:48:27 PM) bryce: we've had a few false starts on that got put off because with it delayed stuff got in that made it a bit unstable, so bit of a merry-go-round unfortunately
  190. (12:48:38 PM) su_v: everything older defaults to old linstdc++
  191. (12:48:40 PM) su_v: *libstdc++
  192. (12:48:45 PM) bryce: well the issue is just regaining stability again, and getting the cmake conversion finished
  193. (12:49:18 PM) bryce: what was the second item? hmm
  194. (12:49:30 PM) valavanisalex: su_v I think you mentioned a custom toolchain build for OSX. Is that particularly painful?
  195. (12:49:49 PM) bryce: I guess that's it, just want to get an actual release done before we risk anything
  196. (12:50:06 PM) tweenk: bryce: I agree with this plan
  197. (12:50:14 PM) Tavmjong: +1
  198. (12:50:29 PM) su_v: valavanisalex: I won't go there myself. MacPorts tries to offer that (but with varying support depending on how much individual ports insist on their own logic when configuring on OS X)
  199. (12:50:32 PM) valavanisalex: bryce, OK that's fine then. Maybe feature freeze on 0.92 soon then?
  200. (12:50:34 PM) Mc-: so, .91.1 then .92 ?
  201. (12:50:44 PM) Mc-: or directly .92 ?
  202. (12:51:10 PM) Tavmjong: tweenk: You were working on a test for GTK/C++11, what is the status?
  203. (12:51:20 PM) bryce: valavanisalex, sure. like I mentioned there's some tasks still for completing cmake, and it would be lovely if everyone could put a couple hours to take a look.
  204. (12:51:51 PM) FailBit: valavanisalex: to suppport 10.7 or 10.8, that would basically require building and static-linking a libc++ dylib to every single port that inkscape requires, directly or indirectly
  205. (12:51:52 PM) FailBit: that is painful
  206. (12:51:53 PM) valavanisalex: Yeah, I'm not great with CMake but will pitch in some effort
  207. (12:51:58 PM) bryce: Mc-, I think ScislaC had adopted the 0.91.1 action, I have just focused on 0.92. I think the two releases could be done orthogonally to each other
  208. (12:52:08 PM) tweenk: Tavmjong: I would essentially need 2 computers side by side to test this properly
  209. (12:52:38 PM) su_v: FailBit: and compiling (one or more) llvm ports from source, and on top of that twice (for clang again)
  210. (12:52:43 PM) tweenk: Tavmjong: last I remember, the change worked for me but failed for you with some sort of cryptic error
  211. (12:52:47 PM) FailBit: ew
  212. (12:52:56 PM) bryce: presently I'm working on the man page support in the cmake rules. There are some optional params in the automake rules that need to be looked at adding to cmake, if we still need them.
  213. (12:53:06 PM) bryce: also win32 and osx on cmake would be nice to have.
  214. (12:53:08 PM) tweenk: su_v: how about a devlibs approach?
  215. (12:53:14 PM) ScislaC: Yeah, the I'm still all about 0.91.1... I just won't be able to get back on that until after SCALE
  216. (12:53:30 PM) su_v: FailBit: with upstream Macports being rather "careless" with updates and thus repeated rounds of full compiling from source of the toolchain just to compile the rest
  217. (12:53:40 PM) tweenk: su_v: basically put the modern compiler for old OSXes in a repo
  218. (12:53:46 PM) bryce: valavanisalex, ok think we're keeping you from your appointment. I'll take a task of posting somethink to rekindle 0.92 release work
  219. (12:53:49 PM) valavanisalex: FWIW, some distros (e.g., Ubuntu) have been patching their GNOME library pkgconfig files to require --std=c++11. Maybe this will be pushed upstream too?
  220. (12:54:18 PM) bryce: valavanisalex, perhaps you can put some thoughts into a todo list for C++-11 post-release, and add them to the roadmap in wiki?
  221. (12:54:53 PM) bryce:
  222. (12:54:54 PM) valavanisalex: Yeah, I'm afraid I'll have to get going. Will take a look at C++-11 roadmapping (think I wrote something in Toronto, so will revisit it!)
  223. (12:55:02 PM) su_v: tweenk: I think mid- to long-term, support for older OS X will have to be dropped (Inkscape would not be the first free opensource project using C++ to do so)
  224. (12:55:06 PM) bryce: cool thanks
  225. (12:55:11 PM) tweenk: valavanisalex: good bye!
  226. (12:55:13 PM) ***bryce looks at the list
  227. (12:55:19 PM) valavanisalex: Bye! :)
  228. (12:55:26 PM) valavanisalex left the room.
  229. (12:55:41 PM) bryce: tweenk, we touched on the sponsorship levels earlier, that's next on the agenda
  230. (12:55:46 PM) bryce: == Sponsorship Levels ==
  231. (12:56:17 PM) tweenk: obviously, the highest sponsorship level would be something on the splash screen, but looks like not everyone is OK with that
  232. (12:56:32 PM) FailBit: I am not personally
  233. (12:56:55 PM) bryce: tweenk, yeah that's a good discussion point. I can see that would be important but contentious
  234. (12:57:00 PM) tweenk: so a level lower would be the about screen and a banner on the webpage for X months
  235. (12:57:06 PM) FailBit: wait, why are we getting a splash again?
  236. (12:57:16 PM) ***su_v -1 on splash screen
  237. (12:57:35 PM) FailBit: inkscape starts fast enough that it probably doesn't need a splash most of the time
  238. (12:57:39 PM) bryce: I have to say I'm fairly anti-splash screen myself, independent of whether there is any advertising on it
  239. (12:58:00 PM) FailBit: (+ the initialization of gtk/glib to create windows would be a large % of the loading time anyways…)
  240. (12:58:00 PM) tweenk: FailBit: unless you have a lot of fonts
  241. (12:58:03 PM) bryce: FailBit, I also suspect there's fat to trim in the startup process, although I seem to recall you disagreed. :-)
  242. (12:58:13 PM) Ede_123 left the room (quit: Quit: Miranda NG! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-ng.org/).
  243. (12:58:14 PM) FailBit: tweenk: I fixed most of the fonts stuff
  244. (12:58:37 PM) su_v: it's now mostly exposed when opening text and font dialog
  245. (12:58:40 PM) su_v: (instead of at launch time)
  246. (12:58:53 PM) su_v: and when importing a PDF file (IIRC)
  247. (12:58:53 PM) tweenk: FailBit: initializing Glib takes essentially no time, not sure about GTK but that should also be fast
  248. (12:59:10 PM) bryce: I can think of some other ideas that might be better than a splash screen, that we could consider
  249. (12:59:31 PM) Mc-: iirc there was a wip to be able to add fonts "live" when inkscape is already running which should also be useable at inkscape launch
  250. (12:59:32 PM) tweenk: bryce: OK
  251. (12:59:48 PM) FailBit: tweenk: on an i7-4790k, ubuntu 14.04.3 with exactly 2000 fonts installed, startup time for inkscape takes 0.9s
  252. (12:59:57 PM) FailBit: with 465 fonts intalled it takes 0.3s
  253. (01:00:25 PM) ScislaC: Mc-: there was but I hadn't seen any updates on it very recently
  254. (01:00:33 PM) prokoudine [~alex@ppp25-184.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] entered the room.
  255. (01:01:06 PM) FailBit: (noting that it jumps to 2 seconds when the fill&stroke dialog is open)
  256. (01:01:21 PM) bryce: so possible places for sponsorship branding in the app: Splash screen, about screen, add-on templates, default templates, distinct entries in Help menu, splash screen during the installer process, Intro page on first usage, tooltips
  257. (01:01:26 PM) su_v: Mc-: the patch was mostly for reloading newly installed fonts without having to restart inkscape (rereading font caches) - how would that help with launch time?
  258. (01:02:18 PM) tweenk: okay so the consensus seems to be that people are against having a splash screen for functional reasons
  259. (01:02:43 PM) tweenk: another place for branding would be the background behind the page, but that's a little overkill
  260. (01:02:57 PM) tweenk: I like the installer idea
  261. (01:03:02 PM) bryce: more areas: status bar, dialogs, plugins/add-ons help pages
  262. (01:03:11 PM) Mc-: ...
  263. (01:03:24 PM) tweenk: Mc-: those are just ideas
  264. (01:03:29 PM) prokoudine_ left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
  265. (01:03:49 PM) bryce: yeah, just throwing stuff out. Most of these will be annoying.
  266. (01:04:17 PM) su_v: adverts for sponsors in the status bar? I'd then rather have it in the splash screen (and an option to disable the splash screen)
  267. (01:04:18 PM) bryce: IMHO 99% of advertising is junk and annoying. Good advertising tends to look more like educational material
  268. (01:04:58 PM) bryce: I don't care about cures for toenail fungus unless I *actually have toenail fungus*, and then I care a LOT.
  269. (01:05:13 PM) Mc-: as as said earlier, imo the idea should be to thank donors, not do anything that would be considered "intrusive advertising" by anyone
  270. (01:05:41 PM) bryce: so if there's any ways we can present the sponsor branding in a way that is consistent with the user's interest, that would be best
  271. (01:05:48 PM) Mc-: (ie "the act of seeing the logo of a sponsor" should be a voluntary act of the user)
  272. (01:06:16 PM) Mc-: (and not something we throw on the user)
  273. (01:06:27 PM) bryce: I suppose what a user really wants to know about the sponsor is how that sponsor's money has helped the user's inkscape experience
  274. (01:06:50 PM) tedg: I think that the key is to make it look like a thank you more than a sales opportunity. We don't want sponsors who are interested in eyeballs as much as those that are interested in the project being better.
  275. (01:06:52 PM) tweenk: bryce: that would speak in favor of having a sponsors page
  276. (01:07:02 PM) Tavmjong: bryce: Good point!
  277. (01:07:04 PM) bryce: or maybe why they are sponsoring inkscape
  278. (01:07:18 PM) tweenk: tedg: that's an important insight
  279. (01:07:29 PM) bryce: tedg, agreed
  280. (01:08:04 PM) tweenk: I was thinking more along the lines of "what can we trade in exchange for money/other resources for the project" but maybe that's not the right paradigm
  281. (01:08:37 PM) tedg: I think that the quote is interesting, more because it would make the sponsors page more interesting to view. Or actually have some fun reasons on the installer.
  282. (01:08:42 PM) bryce: another idea to mull over - instead of like tacking a logo onto an existing part of inkscape, what if it had its own area
  283. (01:09:01 PM) bryce: so like we have the About screen to thank contributors, what if we had a Sponsors page
  284. (01:09:36 PM) tweenk: bryce: that's what I was thinking when I mentioned the sponsors page, basically a separate dialog like the About box
  285. (01:09:39 PM) bryce: and rather than just have a list of logos, maybe Inkscape-it up, like take a photo of the actual employees of the company traced into SVG
  286. (01:09:51 PM) tweenk: bryce: nice idea :)
  287. (01:10:08 PM) tweenk: bryce: and there would be some space to describe how the sponsorship helped
  288. (01:10:29 PM) bryce: perhaps if their sponsorship helped establish a feature, that drawing could be an example of that feature
  289. (01:11:28 PM) tedg: I think we want the sponsor to be able to make the SVG, something like 200x400px made by them. I think we should require it to be made in Inkscape though :-)
  290. (01:11:50 PM) bryce: tedg, yeah
  291. (01:12:30 PM) bryce: tweenk, ok good discussion so far. Would you like to incorporate all this and shoot to me, and I'll put it in for a board vote?
  292. (01:12:57 PM) bryce: ScislaC, I want to get to your GSoC 2016 agenda item next, if you can spare a moment to discuss?
  293. (01:12:57 PM) tweenk: bryce: I think it's too soon for voting, I'll make a doc with this info
  294. (01:13:04 PM) bryce: tweenk, ok sounds good
  295. (01:13:08 PM) bryce: == GSoC 2016 ==
  296. (01:13:54 PM) tweenk: bryce: its' clear that there needs to be some more discussion of how sponsors are presented in the application itself, I think website things and regular publicity won't be as controversial
  297. (01:14:09 PM) bryce: tweenk, yeah think you're right
  298. (01:14:31 PM) bryce: ScislaC, I gather we have until Feb to get stuff together for the project application?
  299. (01:15:22 PM) ScislaC: bryce: The 8th is when we can submit an application to be a mentoring org.
  300. (01:15:29 PM) tweenk: bryce: On the subject of GSoC, I checked and it looks like I can be a mentor
  301. (01:15:36 PM) ScislaC: Deadline is the 19th.
  302. (01:16:03 PM) bryce: my goal is to get the funded project system up to at least be able to list project ideas and mentors. I think that's a straightforward amount of Django work, just need to scrape together some evenings to put it together. Worst case we can rough up something manually in wiki.
  303. (01:16:05 PM) ScislaC: So 20th-26th is when they will review them.
  304. (01:16:09 PM) bryce: ScislaC, of Feb?
  305. (01:16:12 PM) ScislaC: Correct
  306. (01:16:17 PM) bryce: ScislaC, ok
  307. (01:16:17 PM) tweenk: ScislaC: the last time there was a problem with our GSoC landing page, right?
  308. (01:16:45 PM) ScislaC: Yes our suggested projects page was lacking quite a bit.
  309. (01:16:53 PM) bryce: tweenk, there was some missing details like which mentors are associated with which project ideas
  310. (01:17:03 PM) ScislaC: They really want to have a mentor pre-assigned, etc.
  311. (01:17:26 PM) bryce: I did a review of some of the other accepted projects to see what data they typically display, so I can make the django app include and display them.
  312. (01:17:42 PM) Tavmjong: I need to head off... just one last comment: I'll help with the GSoC stuff.
  313. (01:17:43 PM) tweenk: ScislaC: that looks like a fairly new requirement
  314. (01:18:10 PM) ScislaC: bryce: I can send an email to the devel list later asking for mentors to step up now because of the need to be more organized.
  315. (01:18:26 PM) bryce: some of the projects include "resources" like pointers to help documents or other related background info. Many also list some technical knowledge requirements
  316. (01:18:35 PM) bryce: ScislaC, that's a very good idea
  317. (01:18:41 PM) ScislaC: tweenk: It wasn't, they just cracked down on it though last year. Blender didn't make it in last either for the same reasons.
  318. (01:19:22 PM) bryce: ScislaC, one thing I couldn't find is a sort of official list of what's required of projects. If you know of that or run across it, please cc it my way.
  319. (01:19:59 PM) bryce: ok anything else on GSoC?
  320. (01:20:06 PM) ScislaC: bryce: I will look for it, at the very least I can dig up the response they gave when I inquired about our rejection.
  321. (01:21:05 PM) bryce: tweenk, did you want to discuss licensing or can we leave that for next month?
  322. (01:21:23 PM) bryce: == Licensing Issues GPL v2+ ==
  323. (01:21:38 PM) tweenk: bryce: I need to follow up with a few people on that
  324. (01:22:04 PM) tweenk: xml/quote.cpp is cleared for GPLv2+, there are two remaining LPE files that are GPLv2 only
  325. (01:22:10 PM) bryce: Think we've already discussed a lot of this on the list, and I think there's various action items already in play. But are there any aspects that the board will need to decide on or be officially involved with?
  326. (01:22:23 PM) tweenk: tedg: I recalled you touched one of those and I didn't receive a reply from you
  327. (01:23:07 PM) tweenk: bryce: I think the board needs to approve whether we want to advertise ourselves as GPLv2+ compliant
  328. (01:23:35 PM) tweenk: bryce: also, there's the issue of 2 files that are GPLv3 only - it might be easier to say we are GPLv3+ but keep most files GPLv2+
  329. (01:23:53 PM) tedg: tweenk: Yeah, I wanted to see if I could just assign the copyright to the conservancy, but never figured that out.
  330. (01:24:02 PM) tweenk: bryce: I mean the two files from GIMP, they're GPLv3+
  331. (01:24:09 PM) tedg: tweenk: I have no issue fixing it, just wanted to find a more complete solution.
  332. (01:24:19 PM) bryce: tweenk, ok, I'll add a vote for that
  333. (01:24:32 PM) tweenk: tedg: I think you can do that later, for now you can just reply to the e-mail and say that you agree to license all your Inkscape code under GPLv2+
  334. (01:24:55 PM) bryce: in my mind we're definitely GPLv2+ and anything that's v3+ only needs to be fixed or rewritten. But an official statement of intent would likely help here.
  335. (01:25:04 PM) tedg: Yes, one of those "seems like a good idea but ran out of time things."
  336. (01:25:47 PM) tweenk: bryce: the GPLv3+ things are an expression evaluator from GIMP, which is non-essential but useful - we could probably make it conditionally compiled
  337. (01:25:48 PM) bryce: tedg, fwiw I'd hold off bugging SFC for the time being. Sounds like they're under immense funding crunch right now and all hands are engaged in emergency fundraising
  338. (01:26:26 PM) tweenk: bryce: and there's one more thing from GIMP but I don't remember what it was
  339. (01:26:30 PM) bryce: tweenk, have we tried contacting GIMP / authors to get the license version adjusted?
  340. (01:26:46 PM) tweenk: bryce: not yet, but I can try
  341. (01:26:49 PM) su_v: code for the rulers, and the GimpSpinScale widget, IIRC
  342. (01:27:02 PM) tweenk: su_v: yes, that was it
  343. (01:27:18 PM) tweenk: I remembered it was some widget :)
  344. (01:27:19 PM) su_v: (the sliders are so broken and latest GTK3, maybe we can revert or rewrite those anyway)
  345. (01:27:25 PM) su_v: s/and/under/
  346. (01:27:49 PM) bryce: tweenk, yeah try that, might be the most straightforward solution
  347. (01:27:55 PM) tweenk: su_v: I think we could just update them to the newer versions in GIMP
  348. (01:28:09 PM) su_v: and usage is cumbersome, to say the least (for many users, apart apparently from those using Ubuntu's default theme)
  349. (01:28:18 PM) bryce: maybe there's other stuff we'd like to borrow from GIMP so having the licensing straightened out would help in the future
  350. (01:28:22 PM) su_v: tweenk: GIMP gtk3 stuff is not done yet
  351. (01:28:39 PM) tweenk: su_v: oh, I thought they already migrated
  352. (01:28:43 PM) su_v: they basically do the same as inkscape: make sure it builds, but nothing is addressed wrt changes in the toolkit itself
  353. (01:28:58 PM) su_v: tweenk: no, planned for 3.0 (before that there will be 2.10)
  354. (01:29:23 PM) tweenk: that's useful info, good to know we're not the worst offenders
  355. (01:29:36 PM) bryce: tweenk, ok anything else on that?
  356. (01:30:07 PM) tweenk: I have to go soon or I'll go hungry, so action items for me: write up sponsorship info, finalize GPLv2+ migration
  357. (01:30:18 PM) tweenk: anything else?
  358. (01:30:18 PM) bryce: tweenk, yeah same
  359. (01:30:25 PM) bryce: == Other Business ==
  360. (01:30:41 PM) bryce: Any one got any other items?
  361. (01:30:57 PM) ScislaC: Not me
  362. (01:31:03 PM) bryce: Next meeting will be Feb 5th
  363. (01:31:13 PM) tweenk: OK!
  364. (01:31:34 PM) bryce: ScislaC, mind posting minutes? I'll fix up the board meeting page with action items and next month's agenda.
  365. (01:32:05 PM) tweenk: OK I really have to go now :) see you everybody!
  366. (01:32:15 PM) tweenk left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving).
  367. ScislaC scott
  368. (01:32:29 PM) bryce: == End of Meeting ==
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