I'm Roy Torley. I'm writing my last Inkscape tutorial and I'm focusing on print your Inkscape artwork. I want to include a section on registration marks and how to use them, but the only item that I can work with, and is relevant only as another tool for print preparation, is Inkscape's crop/trim mark feature. I am using Inkscape 1.0.1 and haven't made time to make the move to 1.1.1 yet, so if I sound behind the times, well, I am! Once the density of distractions at my end of things diminishes, I'd like to talk with you further about registration marks and implementing what you've created in ways that make sense to you, the graphic designer, and the professional printer you'd be working with. My intention is to keep everything at an introductory or basic level, in keeping with the rest of the tutorial series, and what you've developed here strikes me, at first glance, great! I appreciate that you shared your work and would like to see it go further. Supportively yours, Roy
I can not explore your extension right now, but I will asap. My wife is an RN who specializes in high risk OB. Someone dumped a week old kitten at the hospital. I have been tasked with rescue ops - eye dropper baby fooding, holding on chest, etc while wife works overtime due to the miscarriages and fetal deaths being caused by covid. Wife says I just thought I got out of paramedicine!
Anyway, typing on my phone, I'll suggest researching the technical methods of ukiyo-e production. Japanese woodblock printmaking is a true high point of popular art.
The way things are done is that each "layer" of color gets printed separately in the sequence to create the overall image. In the 1800s, the printed gradients sometimes required hundreds of individual printings to present the effect. All of those required a common register. The way that was done - I'll flip into modern application mode now - is to establish a common point on all of the "layers" which lies outside the overall bounding box. This is most important - the XY registration must. be for the alignment of all "layers" in the full compositional image. If you look at the file i uploaded, the navy blue layer is not realignable without an overall registration mark applied to it when its bitmap trace layer is created.
SO, if inkscape places a 5 px diameter black circle 5 px below and 5 px to the left of the overall bounding box - a copy of that register needs to be grouped to each individual "layer" resulting from the trace. By "layer" I am referring to each element in the group resulting from the trace. I am not referring to the shft-ctrl-l layers, the layer stack, etc. I am only referring to the "layers" or "floors" within the Z stack that is created as a group by trace fx.
Of course, the 5 px measurements etc are completely arbitrary on my part that I may communicate the idea.
One way to test my idea is to create a new trace from the helmet in my upload file. Ungroup the result. Before moving the "floors" for editing - create a mark and place it to the bottom left of the trace results. If you did a trace resulting in ? 8 steps ? Make a total of 8 copies of the register. Align all copies so that they lie on top of one another. Next, group a registration mark to a "floor" and move that floor of the trace out of the way. Do this with all 8 "floors." Your result should be 8 individual trace images, each with a common mark at their bottom left corner. Make a copy of them. Align all 8 from the copy - align bottom edges - align left edges. All registration marks should be on top of one another. The realigned image should look exactly like the original trace. It should not have a misaligned navy blue "floor" as in my example file.
The reason you made a copy of the marked trace floors is Z-order. Say someone wants to ? Put a painting on a wall in an interior. That painting often needs to be abstracted. Tat is often solved by a trace of it. The image also needs to ne recolored to be consistent with the light source and temp. That recoloring often requires the lifting of floors to the top of the stack to test different effects. How do we then put the floors back into proper sequence? Right now it takes a lot of trial and error or a known work method reliant u on a boy of the trace with the floors in proper sequence next to one another. The problem is that the proper sequence is never really know because the smallest floor is ntalwsys the highest. Proper Z-stack sequencing is important because of bends and opacities, etc.
SO, how do we create a register for Z? Automatically create another series of marks next to the circles. One stack of black circles for XY at far low left and a row of squares for Z order extending to the right of it. Perhaps black circles for XY and a series of squares (ROYGBVRO...) For each layer in the Z starting with red for the bottom floor. Simply return to red for the 7th floor in the stack.
Additionally, these registers should be created with a tick box ""apply registers" in the trace bitmap panel. Removing the registers should also be an option in the panel. If we rely upon an " ungroup" command as we do with everything else, ungrouping a trace or breaking it apart to modify it will destroy the register. Simply work on the stack and reenter the trace bitmap panel when done to remove - or perhaps they want the option to hide the registers for now and fully remove them later?
I was thinking about a method to show that the z stack order had been changed from original. I think the easiest way might be to change the colors of the registration squares. At creation, the lowest level is represented with a red square. The square closest to the black circle would be red. If the artist drops the 4th level in the stack down to the lowest position, the color of the first square would change to green. All later squares would be recolored for their new order. After completing their work, artists would need an auto restack command if they wanted to reestablish the original sequence.
@inklinea In case you are thinking of applying registration marks to pages - don't. Marks are not used in printing as the pages are aligned in the printer. What you may be thinking of is a bleed. That tool should be available but creating will imply that inkscape is becoming more print industry friendly. There will be expectations for a more friendly cmyk work method etc. I suggest not inviting those headaches and deal with bleeds later.
I've been diving in and quickly considering how this thread is evolving. It's important to me because I had intended to put a section on registration marks in my tutorial. I'll hold off for now, especially if printers don't need them anymore because it's becoming a legacy technology. It's makes my task a little easier in terms of writing. I would like to see Inkscape have a bleed capability to complement its trim/crop function. One printer, who has been out of business now for a few years, told me that it helped a lot in large-scale poster projects. And .... gotta go.
NELCHAI, I immediately relate to what you wife is going through, and the burn-out must be really bad. I don't know what to say outside of she really has my support. I stand by her side. And the orphaned kitten. Well, lucky you. I'm still getting over yesterday's funeral of a relative followed by the rest of necessary living priorities. Please let your wife know that I understand and and recognize her for her heroine's job.
inklinea, I appreciate your looking into this topic of what to do for printing. I'm being selfish about it because I want to put a good tutorial together that focuses on Inkscape's printing capabilities put shines a good bright on what it can do. I haven't programmed in Python for years, but I can read through your code for registration marks. Nice work.
I'll be in touch. Thanks, guys, you are appreciated, Roy
Indignant rhetorical question: What kind of person would leave a completely defenseless kitten, or any other newborn animal, to the vagaries of the outside world like that? Thank you for the care you and your wife demonstrate. Roy
I've been thinking about your opinion re bleeds and decided to take the bleed section out of the tutorial. I want to keep the tutorial concepts and tasks within Inkscape's capabilities. I appreciate your thoughts, Roy
@Roy_Torley Tanks - My wife, as I said is a nurse who specializes in high risk ob. All of the cats within 3 cul-de sacs know it. Guess who's studio they visit when they get pregnant? Trish looks at me - Jim, I think she's in labor. No, she's not, I say. She opens the door, gets the "laboring quilt," and now she asks me why we have 20 100% indoor cats. Last year two white girls - sisters - got pregnant and came to the Wright cat house at the same time. They accounted for 8 of the pride. I don't mind attracting the pussies - but - DAMN!😻
You're talking with someone who knows. You have a cat house, we had our hice mice, perhaps up to 24 at a time. We still have half a dozen cages (Thank God, they're empty! I want them to stay that way.) I figure that we had caught and released somewhere between 200 and 300 over the span of three years. We even saw a couple of families grow up. I'm happy with the memories. So is the apartment management. But all of this is for later. My wife, Joan, is seriously considering writing a book about our adventures.
It looks like you understand the concept. I am eager to use it. Remember to keep it simple. These are going to be displayed over complexities being worked on by the artist.
@inklinea In case you are thinking of applying registration marks to pages - don't. Marks are not used in printing as the pages are aligned in the printer.
FWIW, Inkscape is used with many printing workflows and systems, historical and contemporary.
Registration marks are still vital in the process of printing and are ubiquitous in graphic arts software. The marks are generally outside the page area and get trimmed off.
I've uploaded a new version with the z-order indexing.
Nelchai : extensions are mainly just SVG XML manipulation and then SVG passback, interaction with the main interface of Inkscape is not possible.
Roy : Should be simple enough just to draw a large rectangle around everything then apply the extension, since it just finds the largest bounding box. I've not focused on precision, but if the same rectangle is used each time, it should be consistent.
* It does require Inkscape 1.1+
[ I should add, it can be foiled by layer transforms, these are generally present when Edit>Resize Page to Selection has been used, a workaround is to copy and paste the objects into a new layer or document before applying the extension ]
Many thanks for the heads-up! I need to pull back and think things through at this point. I've written the tutorials based on v1.0.1's capabilities. I'll explore what you've put together and, if things work, I would love to add them, with examples to work on, to Tutorial 20, which is the printing tutorial, and the last one. I'm burnt out on writing tutorials. There's more behind this, and that's for later. I just want to write something that makes Inkscape look good, that people can learn from, and invite anybody to come in and add to Inkscape's capabilities, like what you're doing, which I think is a really wonderful thing. inklinea and NELCHAI, thank you both doing this work. I know it might be a pain in the pituitary, but look at what comes out of it. I'm proud to be a fly on the wall. Take care, both of you!
@TylerDurden I know where you are coming from. Designing your concept as a post production system with bleeds and other tools will be more complete and useful. That sphere is CMYK Centric and there will be expectations for Pantone etc. I am not saying it should not be done - i just do not want to be the one inviting the headache
@inklinea Ouch! I understand - but users are not going to look for this under the extensions. A tool this useful should be more prominent. How can we draw more attention to it in software? A help menu dictionary to advertise the extensions and their limitations?
Palso - alignment FX is to your main mark? Not edges or z.
@TylerDurden I know where you are coming from. Designing your concept as a post production system with bleeds and other tools will be more complete and useful. That sphere is CMYK Centric and there will be expectations for Pantone etc.
No.
Many printing processes from lino to letterpress use registration for multi-color, cutting scoring, foiling, hybrid relief/digital.
Multi-color, multi-step processes often have no need for Pantone or CMYK.
Even in the design at home, take to FedEx Office or upload to Vistaprint make use of crop, and bleed outside the page.
Creating New Extensions Simple Registration
Inkscape.org
Inkscape 1.1+ extension.
A forum member asked a question about creating registration marks, mainly for use with bitmap scans.
I have uploaded a simple extension here:
https://inkscape.org/~inklinea/%E2%98%85simple-registration
You do have to ungroup the scan result before applying.
It just finds the largest possible bounding box for all of the objects created by the scan.
The puts each scan into its own layer.
Then adds registration marks to the corners and groups with that scan.
Hi inklinea,
I'm Roy Torley. I'm writing my last Inkscape tutorial and I'm focusing on print your Inkscape artwork. I want to include a section on registration marks and how to use them, but the only item that I can work with, and is relevant only as another tool for print preparation, is Inkscape's crop/trim mark feature. I am using Inkscape 1.0.1 and haven't made time to make the move to 1.1.1 yet, so if I sound behind the times, well, I am! Once the density of distractions at my end of things diminishes, I'd like to talk with you further about registration marks and implementing what you've created in ways that make sense to you, the graphic designer, and the professional printer you'd be working with. My intention is to keep everything at an introductory or basic level, in keeping with the rest of the tutorial series, and what you've developed here strikes me, at first glance, great! I appreciate that you shared your work and would like to see it go further. Supportively yours, Roy
Very nice!
Hello Ron ( and Tyler ),
Thanks for the kind words.
I don't really know anything about registration marks as such.
If you could give some examples of what you think a registration mark system would look like, or would include.
I can have a look when I have the time at incorporating some other features.
It's fairly easy to put the marks on the page instead of the objects too :)
@inklinea WONDERFUL ! & THANK YOU !
I can not explore your extension right now, but I will asap. My wife is an RN who specializes in high risk OB. Someone dumped a week old kitten at the hospital. I have been tasked with rescue ops - eye dropper baby fooding, holding on chest, etc while wife works overtime due to the miscarriages and fetal deaths being caused by covid. Wife says I just thought I got out of paramedicine!
Anyway, typing on my phone, I'll suggest researching the technical methods of ukiyo-e production. Japanese woodblock printmaking is a true high point of popular art.
The way things are done is that each "layer" of color gets printed separately in the sequence to create the overall image. In the 1800s, the printed gradients sometimes required hundreds of individual printings to present the effect. All of those required a common register. The way that was done - I'll flip into modern application mode now - is to establish a common point on all of the "layers" which lies outside the overall bounding box. This is most important - the XY registration must. be for the alignment of all "layers" in the full compositional image. If you look at the file i uploaded, the navy blue layer is not realignable without an overall registration mark applied to it when its bitmap trace layer is created.
SO, if inkscape places a 5 px diameter black circle 5 px below and 5 px to the left of the overall bounding box - a copy of that register needs to be grouped to each individual "layer" resulting from the trace. By "layer" I am referring to each element in the group resulting from the trace. I am not referring to the shft-ctrl-l layers, the layer stack, etc. I am only referring to the "layers" or "floors" within the Z stack that is created as a group by trace fx.
Of course, the 5 px measurements etc are completely arbitrary on my part that I may communicate the idea.
One way to test my idea is to create a new trace from the helmet in my upload file. Ungroup the result. Before moving the "floors" for editing - create a mark and place it to the bottom left of the trace results. If you did a trace resulting in ? 8 steps ? Make a total of 8 copies of the register. Align all copies so that they lie on top of one another. Next, group a registration mark to a "floor" and move that floor of the trace out of the way. Do this with all 8 "floors." Your result should be 8 individual trace images, each with a common mark at their bottom left corner. Make a copy of them. Align all 8 from the copy - align bottom edges - align left edges. All registration marks should be on top of one another. The realigned image should look exactly like the original trace. It should not have a misaligned navy blue "floor" as in my example file.
The reason you made a copy of the marked trace floors is Z-order. Say someone wants to ? Put a painting on a wall in an interior. That painting often needs to be abstracted. Tat is often solved by a trace of it. The image also needs to ne recolored to be consistent with the light source and temp. That recoloring often requires the lifting of floors to the top of the stack to test different effects. How do we then put the floors back into proper sequence? Right now it takes a lot of trial and error or a known work method reliant u on a boy of the trace with the floors in proper sequence next to one another. The problem is that the proper sequence is never really know because the smallest floor is ntalwsys the highest. Proper Z-stack sequencing is important because of bends and opacities, etc.
SO, how do we create a register for Z? Automatically create another series of marks next to the circles. One stack of black circles for XY at far low left and a row of squares for Z order extending to the right of it. Perhaps black circles for XY and a series of squares (ROYGBVRO...) For each layer in the Z starting with red for the bottom floor. Simply return to red for the 7th floor in the stack.
Additionally, these registers should be created with a tick box ""apply registers" in the trace bitmap panel. Removing the registers should also be an option in the panel. If we rely upon an " ungroup" command as we do with everything else, ungrouping a trace or breaking it apart to modify it will destroy the register. Simply work on the stack and reenter the trace bitmap panel when done to remove - or perhaps they want the option to hide the registers for now and fully remove them later?
Including marks with a simple cross of two paths might make snapping easier.
I like making the design responsive to the snaps. Good idea, Tyler. Remember that the mark has to be easy to see in a complex work area.
Also, did I mention that these marks need to be applied when the trace is created? Not when we Ungroup it as that is what we are already doing.
I was thinking about a method to show that the z stack order had been changed from original. I think the easiest way might be to change the colors of the registration squares. At creation, the lowest level is represented with a red square. The square closest to the black circle would be red. If the artist drops the 4th level in the stack down to the lowest position, the color of the first square would change to green. All later squares would be recolored for their new order. After completing their work, artists would need an auto restack command if they wanted to reestablish the original sequence.
@inklinea In case you are thinking of applying registration marks to pages - don't. Marks are not used in printing as the pages are aligned in the printer. What you may be thinking of is a bleed. That tool should be available but creating will imply that inkscape is becoming more print industry friendly. There will be expectations for a more friendly cmyk work method etc. I suggest not inviting those headaches and deal with bleeds later.
Hi NELCHAI, Tyler, and inklinea,
I've been diving in and quickly considering how this thread is evolving. It's important to me because I had intended to put a section on registration marks in my tutorial. I'll hold off for now, especially if printers don't need them anymore because it's becoming a legacy technology. It's makes my task a little easier in terms of writing. I would like to see Inkscape have a bleed capability to complement its trim/crop function. One printer, who has been out of business now for a few years, told me that it helped a lot in large-scale poster projects. And .... gotta go.
NELCHAI, I immediately relate to what you wife is going through, and the burn-out must be really bad. I don't know what to say outside of she really has my support. I stand by her side. And the orphaned kitten. Well, lucky you. I'm still getting over yesterday's funeral of a relative followed by the rest of necessary living priorities. Please let your wife know that I understand and and recognize her for her heroine's job.
inklinea, I appreciate your looking into this topic of what to do for printing. I'm being selfish about it because I want to put a good tutorial together that focuses on Inkscape's printing capabilities put shines a good bright on what it can do. I haven't programmed in Python for years, but I can read through your code for registration marks. Nice work.
I'll be in touch. Thanks, guys, you are appreciated, Roy
Tyler,
I forgot about you. Thank you, too, for getting involved. Take care, Roy
Playing wit phone.
Indignant rhetorical question: What kind of person would leave a completely defenseless kitten, or any other newborn animal, to the vagaries of the outside world like that? Thank you for the care you and your wife demonstrate. Roy
Hi NELCHAI,
I've been thinking about your opinion re bleeds and decided to take the bleed section out of the tutorial. I want to keep the tutorial concepts and tasks within Inkscape's capabilities. I appreciate your thoughts, Roy
There are already extensions that provide registration, crop, bleeds, etc. (since 2009)
Extensions>Render>Layout>Printer Marks
Also improved versions here and in the FabLab Mightyscape package.
@Roy_Torley Tanks - My wife, as I said is a nurse who specializes in high risk ob. All of the cats within 3 cul-de sacs know it. Guess who's studio they visit when they get pregnant? Trish looks at me - Jim, I think she's in labor. No, she's not, I say. She opens the door, gets the "laboring quilt," and now she asks me why we have 20 100% indoor cats. Last year two white girls - sisters - got pregnant and came to the Wright cat house at the same time. They accounted for 8 of the pride. I don't mind attracting the pussies - but - DAMN!😻
It's a cat house - A CAT HOUSE !!!
NELCHAI,
You're talking with someone who knows. You have a cat house, we had our hice mice, perhaps up to 24 at a time. We still have half a dozen cages (Thank God, they're empty! I want them to stay that way.) I figure that we had caught and released somewhere between 200 and 300 over the span of three years. We even saw a couple of families grow up. I'm happy with the memories. So is the apartment management. But all of this is for later. My wife, Joan, is seriously considering writing a book about our adventures.
Better rodentia than dementia,
Roy
What you do unto the least of theese...
Well, I've got a bit further in my testing.
Some numbering of the z-index, not sure about the arrangements on the sides yet.
It's possible to select top, left, bottom, right or all ( or none ) for numbering.
It looks like you understand the concept. I am eager to use it. Remember to keep it simple. These are going to be displayed over complexities being worked on by the artist.
I like it. Does the order of the numbering change as the artist changes the order for work? Auto-Restock command when done working on it?
FWIW, Inkscape is used with many printing workflows and systems, historical and contemporary.
Registration marks are still vital in the process of printing and are ubiquitous in graphic arts software. The marks are generally outside the page area and get trimmed off.
I've uploaded a new version with the z-order indexing.
Nelchai : extensions are mainly just SVG XML manipulation and then SVG passback, interaction with the main interface of Inkscape is not possible.
Roy : Should be simple enough just to draw a large rectangle around everything then apply the extension, since it just finds the largest bounding box. I've not focused on precision, but if the same rectangle is used each time, it should be consistent.
* It does require Inkscape 1.1+
[ I should add, it can be foiled by layer transforms, these are generally present when Edit>Resize Page to Selection has been used, a workaround is to copy and paste the objects into a new layer or document before applying the extension ]
Hi inklinea,
Many thanks for the heads-up! I need to pull back and think things through at this point. I've written the tutorials based on v1.0.1's capabilities. I'll explore what you've put together and, if things work, I would love to add them, with examples to work on, to Tutorial 20, which is the printing tutorial, and the last one. I'm burnt out on writing tutorials. There's more behind this, and that's for later. I just want to write something that makes Inkscape look good, that people can learn from, and invite anybody to come in and add to Inkscape's capabilities, like what you're doing, which I think is a really wonderful thing. inklinea and NELCHAI, thank you both doing this work. I know it might be a pain in the pituitary, but look at what comes out of it. I'm proud to be a fly on the wall. Take care, both of you!
Cheers,
Roy
@TylerDurden I know where you are coming from. Designing your concept as a post production system with bleeds and other tools will be more complete and useful. That sphere is CMYK Centric and there will be expectations for Pantone etc. I am not saying it should not be done - i just do not want to be the one inviting the headache
@inklinea Ouch! I understand - but users are not going to look for this under the extensions. A tool this useful should be more prominent. How can we draw more attention to it in software? A help menu dictionary to advertise the extensions and their limitations?
Palso - alignment FX is to your main mark? Not edges or z.
No.
Many printing processes from lino to letterpress use registration for multi-color, cutting scoring, foiling, hybrid relief/digital.
Multi-color, multi-step processes often have no need for Pantone or CMYK.
Even in the design at home, take to FedEx Office or upload to Vistaprint make use of crop, and bleed outside the page.
Stated plainly, spare us the BS.